Re: Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/29/07 04:43:45 PM |
Age 63, OH |
Just a small point Jesus did say give to Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is God's. But we of all people should know that EVERYTHING belongs to God. Lou
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Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/25/07 09:38:56 AM |
Age 54, MA |
Couple of points. Article is on target. I work in Boston, doing tours for natives and foreigners. Sam Adams, who most people know only as an award winning beer label, would, were he alive today, deplore his name being used to advertise a brew; not that he didn't drink alcoholic beverages but the heart of this "beer maker" is best encapsulated in the words he spoke when he signedthe Declaration of Independence, "We have this day restored the Sovreign to whom all men ought to be obedient, and from the rising to the setting sun may His Kingdom come". Sam wasn't an anti-monarch as some people think. His cousin, John Adams,no evangelical Christian, knew the value of a culture infused with Christian values when he gave a speech in 1797 to the Mass. militia saying" we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by religion and morality... our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other". And yet, because John Adams didn't specifically address institutionalizing sodomites getting married, Margaret MArshall, the Supreme Court Chief Justice of thisstate justified the legality of homosexual marriage basedon the state constitution, penned by J. Adams.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/24/07 03:59:44 AM |
Age 63, OH |
That is exactly what this man said is it not that you started your argument about. That is what the Christians did in the Roman Empire. But at the same time should we not vote for and support Christian men in our government. It is not our hope; Christ is our hope. But it is our Christian duty. Lou
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/24/07 03:53:04 AM |
Age 63, OH |
ROME WAS NEVER A CHRISTIAN NATION and the church in Rome is not Christian now. Having soldiers pass by and be sprinked is not becoming Christian. But the early Roman Republic rose by following Christian ideals. The father was head of family;every man had to serve in the army to defend the city;every man had a say in the government; no one man rule;a man was innocent until proven guilty;a man had the right to face his accuser and hear and see his charges;they hated the Canannites in Carthage because they sacrificed their children to Baal. They abandoned these Christian ideals and started their decline. They had a professional army; one man rule;welfare state;they had homosexual Greek slaves tutor their children; homosexuality was accepted; they had homosexual leaders; they became corrupt. You say a Christian government will never work. have you ever read of King David's government. If you read of Israel in the Bible; you will see that as long as they followed God they were fine and as soon as they left those principles things fell apart. So if you want your nation to fall apart do worry about the laws that they have. Remember it rains on the Just and the unjust. No nation will succeed until Jesus is our King; but until that happens we should try to influence our government to follow God's laws.
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Re: Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/24/07 03:15:55 AM |
Age 63, OH |
At your age how would you know what things were like in 1964. You criticize a man who lived through what he is talking about. Should we talk about something we know nothing of. But you think that is proper; so that fact should advise us to how much weight we should put on your opinion. Lou
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Re: Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/24/07 03:07:55 AM |
Age 63, OH |
Is not the man's main focus on what it was like in 1964 and what it is like now. Of course you being 20 should know better what it was like than someone who lived through those years. I am 63 and grew up in a town that had a population of 2500. I remember when I was very young a women on the other side of town wanted to divorce her husband; not for adultery but just because she was tired of him. The whole town was upset and thought her behavior was terrible. One of my best teachers was Mr. Hoskins and he gave me a love for history that is still with me. He was always relating history to how God moved and the laws of God. We prayed in school often. Homosexuality was not tolerated.The ten commandments were talked about often. If someone would have run for office and said they were not Christian they would have got very few votes if any. Not everyone was Christian of course; but everyone was held to God's laws. School shootings did not happen. I never heard of drugs in high school let alone grade school. If a women was with child and not married it was very unusual. Someone killing their own baby was unheard of. I lived in that world and it was a lot different than now; and it was much for the better. Neighbors all talked to each other; now people don't even speak to each other often. It is people with attitudes like your's that got us where we are now. If you like schools full of murder then more of the same should bring us more murder. If you want to live with an ungodly government go to Iran or China; you will learn quickly that God in government is good. Jesus said give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God what is God's; but don't you know that everything is God's. Lou
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/23/07 06:10:54 PM |
Age 20, MN |
Oops, sorry. i forgot to finish my point when i said that america has had its fair share of christian influence. What i was getting at was that a christian nation can never work. it never has and never will, and thus using religion, at the legislative level, will not cut it when it comes to fixing moral fallout. We gotta work our way from the bottom up. We gotta start with the people, not the government. Only then will this country see improvement.
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Re: Re: Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/22/07 10:05:43 PM |
Age 20, MN |
Well, i believe that america's culture is "running out" is because every great ever has fallen over time. Rome held its prestige (consistently) for five hundred yearsThere has been no other nation that has lasted that long (when i say lasted, i mean that they were a major nation the whole time). China wasnt powerful for all of its existence, or englad (consistently), or france, or germany, or russia, or the turks, not even israel. America will fall like the rest, not by by a more powerful nation, but by cultural and social demise. I find it itneresting that the moment Rome became an overwhelmly christian nation, within 150 years it fell. America has had its fair share of christian influence, and i can already see that happening with america (i am talking way early stages, but i wouldnt be suprised). Dont attach our cultural problems with religion when cultural fallout clearly has happened to every other major nation in history, and the religious state of each of those nations has been dissimiliar with the other cases. Plus, while i do believe religion effects culture, but, i believe that culture (end result) has many factors and causes (economics, religion, politics, ethnicity, history, etc etc). Thus, it is hard to create direct correlation from religion to culture. -Dan Smith
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Re: Re: Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/22/07 03:56:27 PM |
Age 31, ON |
If I understand you correctly, the United States is "less preserved" not because the laws have changed in the last hundred years but because we as Christains are not acting like Christians should (ie. living in imitation of the way Jesus Christ lived). So the way to restrict the flourishing of evil is not to change the laws but to start living more like Jesus lived.
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Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/21/07 03:37:11 PM |
Age 21, MN |
i dont know...this article's sense of entitlement to 'christian civilization' seems like it's missing the point. maybe the country is on the downslope morally, and maybe there are some things to be concerned about, but i dont think our mission, as people concerned about the advancement of God's kingdom, should be for things like placing our religion into our earthly government. we are Kingdom people before we are Americans (To Caeser what is Caeser's and to God what is God's). i'm not an Un-American person, but when i see that some among the body of Christ think it is some kind of encroachment on rights when other religions are given heed within gov't legislation, it makes me wonder. i dont think Christ ever promised us political favor, and it also seems to me that any gov't that has claimed Christianity in the past as it's platform hasnt been very just or peaceful or loving, the traits Christ commanded us to emulate. this may sound young and idealistic, and yes, i am listening to Derek Webb's album as i type this, but maybe someone can shed some light for me as to why Chirstians sometimes seem so much more concerned with political entitlements than actually doing good to advance the kingdom.
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Re: Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/21/07 02:02:55 PM |
Age 18, MN |
Well, as far as some of the issue being political and not spiritual, I would disagree. Rom. 13 clearly states that the civil govt. is ordained by God and thus makes the issue 'spiritual'. Spiritual issues effect political ones (i.e. ideas have consequences). As far as the world not being more sinful than it was 300 years ago, that may be true in one sense, but there's a difference. We are called to be 'salt and light' to the earth (Christians), so what does salt do? Well, it perserves and makes things taste good for starters. To put it bluntly, our culture is less perserved and is starting rot quicker (metaphorically speaking). So, in terms of human sinfulness, that hasn't changed (as far as our old natures are concerned). In terms of evil flourishing more, yes, I would argue that it is. Have a great day and God Bless!
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Re: The True American Revolution
| Posted On: 01/20/07 01:05:28 AM |
Age 20, MN |
Most of those things listed are problems specific to our culture. Those are the things that Satan can best ensare us with. However, other countries and cultures have their own snares too that Satan uses as well. The world is no more morally corrupt than it was 300 or 1000 years ago. Sin has had many many disguises over the years, but has always been there and in full force. I would be careful assuming things were soo good "back in the day". The early church was not united as people think. There were tons and tons of divisions and sects amongst christianity from the very start, which means heresy has been around since then. The early church had its problems, the medieval church had its problems, the church of early america had its problems (yeah, i said it), and so does our current church. To say that things are getting worse then they've ever been is quite a bold statement. Plus, half of that list was political issues, NOT spiritual. Two way entirely different things. -Dan Smith
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