Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/13/07 10:33:27 PM |
Age 47, MO |
Sometimes a misguided statement needs a snappy comeback, and this was a good one. T.D. Jakes and his fellow Oneness heretics and Word/Faith hucksters are more like Sanballet, Tobiah, and Gesham (Nehemiah 4:1-8, 6:1-7), and Ken Silva is more like Ezra and Nehemiah.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/13/07 03:01:42 PM |
Age 51, NH |
Excellent point! Now just reverse your analogy and you've got it.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/13/07 02:08:15 AM |
Age 61, TX |
May I suggest you read 2 books by John MacArthur? "RECKLESS FAITH: WHEN THE CHURCH LOSES ITS WILL TO DISCERN" and CHARISMATIC CHAOS:SIGNS & WONDERS, SPEAKING IN TONGUES, HEALTH, WEALTH &PROSPERITY, CHARISMATIC TELEVANGELISM, DOES GOD STILL SPEAK TODAY?" MacArthur gives references, documentation, and thoroughly covers the topic. Or go to http://www.forgottenword.org/jakes.html
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Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/13/07 01:58:44 AM |
Age 61, TX |
You are not alone. Thanks to you, John MacArthur and other Godly courageous men, and discernment, many realize the truth. We've researched the teachings and quotes of T.D.Jakes, and it reminds me of when OT Scripture was quoted to Jesus in the wilderness...so close to sounding right to the ear, but still wrong! God bless you! Persevere!
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/12/07 09:27:47 PM |
Age 30, TN |
Mr Silva is a learned man in some scholarly disciplines, yes. In tact or common courtesy, no, he is not. And as he said above, his lack of tact has cost him financially and has adversely affected his ability to provide for his family. I can't say I am surprised either. Attacking Dr Page for no other reason than that his polite response to some letter was shorter than Mr Silva had hoped for was, in my opinion, not a very wise course of action. Mr Silva seems to not very readily accept anyone else's authority anyway, whether as a peer or as a superior. It is no surprise that he reacts this way when he feels snubbed. --Brian
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Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/12/07 04:18:15 PM |
Age 47, AL |
To take an image from Nehemiah, Mr. Page is busy "building the wall" (building God's Kingdom). His response could have been as Nehemiah to his "pesky" detractors: "I am carrying on a great project and cannot go down. Why should the work stop while I leave it and go down to you." (6:3). My prayer is that some day you, Mr. Silva, will take your great intellect and learning up on the "wall" and work alongside of "Nehemiah's" like Mr. Page, so that the work will get done before the LOrd returns.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/12/07 03:40:48 PM |
Age 30, TN |
Thank you for your post. I share your sentiment. Just don't expect too much from any response by Mr. Silva though. I say Mr. rather than "Pastor" because he is not my pastor, nor is he the pastor of many of his readers. However, in his responses to readers who disagree with any portion of his writings (content, style, tone or otherwise) Mr. Silva assumes the role of a critical parent or a domineering tyrant-like pastor, and attempts to weild that trumped-up authority like a sledge hammer, as that is what he is accustomed to doing in other formats. But this format, an online debate setting, places every participant in the discussion on equal footing. There is no prerequisite here for letting your opinion be known. Mr. Silva cannot accept that fact though, and it burns him up that there are people in this setting from whom he cannot demand respect. He is simply incapable of responding in any sort of nurturing, brotherly manner or of relating to anyone as a peer. He cannot comprehend that his authority over others is not what he pretends it to be. Thus when anyone disagrees with him, his response is basically another assertion of his authority, and a denial of the validity of any point made by the other person based on their lack of authority to make such a point. --Brian
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T.D. Jakes is a greedmonger and a false teacher
| Posted On: 01/11/07 10:15:46 PM |
Age 47, MO |
The responders who defend T.D. Jakes need to realize that the time for personally confronting him has passed long ago. Jakes never repented of his Oneness heresies, so we must treat him like a Roman Tax Collector! Jakes and his defenders deserve every bit of sarcasm directed at them; just as Ahab, Jezebel, and the priests of Baal deserved Elijah's sarcasm; the Pharisees deserved Jesus' sarcasm; and the Corinthians who bragged about their sins deserved Paul's sarcasm. Those who defend Jakes' false doctrine don't seem to know the difference between a "person" and a "manifestation." They also don't know how Oneness Pentecostals strain at gnats (they say every Christian has to speak in tongues), but they swallow some very large camels by denying the Trinity. Even if T.D. Jakes speaks any truth, that truth can be acquired from literally thousands of real Christian leaders WITHOUT the Oneness false doctrine nor the health-and-wealth greedmongering. I thank Ken Silva for speaking the truth.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/11/07 02:33:40 PM |
Age 37, NC |
THAT....was....funny!!!
Too quick to anger makes us look kinda foolish...
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/11/07 11:36:31 AM |
Age 51, NH |
Thank you very much for your kind words in the Lord. They mean much to this very weary soldier. You are quite right that the guns of the enemy will fire upon us, and I am not a machine. Sadly in this issue the leaders within the evangelical community have showed by their ignoring this critical issue that they are not going to defend the Trinity and my financial support has also been hit hard. Regardless I am constrained to fight on to the end..."though none go with me, still I will follow."
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/11/07 11:31:15 AM |
Age 51, NH |
I might offer a second opinion where you say: "an old GARBC minister used to say that when a preacher gets loud it often means his point is getting weak." Or it just might be as in Matthew 23 and Luke 3:7-9 where the Message "gets loud" due to the Lord's growing anger at not having His ministers listened to. Perhaps you might pray about that.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/11/07 10:07:41 AM |
Age 56, MN |
I am surprised that you didn't read the 1 Peter 3:15 a bit further and include 1 Peter 3:18?
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/11/07 12:49:48 AM |
Age 61, TX |
Perhaps Frank Page's response was pacification, and essentially no response at all. Re: Silva, it doesn't take a master or judge to be concerned about the false teachers and prophets of the day. Jesus didn't worry about being politically correct with the Pharisees. I'm sure Ken Silva is taking care of his personal walk and his responsibilities and maybe providing this information was one of them! But he's also concerned about that very large congregation and the TV audience of Jakes that is being falsely taught, taken in, and taken down. And he's not the only one, plenty of Jakes' erroneous quotes can be found online, with comments by well-known men of sound doctrine and the Berean mindset. However, there are some people who just don't want to hear the truth, even when the documentation is out there.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/11/07 12:22:53 AM |
Age 61, TX |
Can anyone tell me how Jakes would explain the scriptural scene at the baptism of Jesus? The Holy Spirit appeared, and the Father spoke of His son, Jesus was present...sounds like the TRINITY to me! If you want a lot more info on what Jakes believes about God, the Bible, etc., go to http://www.forgottenword.org/jakes.html It is not only my opinion, but the opinions of others that I respect that in many areas, he is absolutely erroneous. He calls himself a prophet. I remember what the Bible says about false prophets. And just WHERE did he go to seminary???
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/11/07 12:04:54 AM |
Age 63, OH |
Was God trying to confuse us. When I do not pay any attention to church doctrine and just read the scriptures I see no evidence of the "Trinity". Isaiah 45:21 "Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a savior; there is none besides Me." Is this not true, can not God be clear. Can not God explain Himself better than any man. Jesus said when you see me you see the Father. He also said "Hear O Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is one". I can't imagine the creator of the universe could not have created the word "Trinity". Why would He have not have used this word if it would be better. If it is not a better word why do we use it. -- Lou
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Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/10/07 11:40:27 PM |
Age 61, TX |
When I read Page's reply, I thought it was "lukewarm." Indifference is a horrible thing in religion.
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Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/10/07 11:30:45 PM |
Age 63, OH |
You are certainly correct when you say it is the Word that convicts. But Consider this John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The scriptures are part of the creation and can not act at all. But the Creator is a person and the Creator of everything that there is including the scriptures. He is the only one that can call us, convict us, and guide us into all Truth isn't He. --- Lou
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Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/10/07 10:11:36 PM |
Age 54, NM |
Why would you think that the 'us' in 'let us make man in our image' refers to three? The word of God constantly speaks of the Father and the Son. The Lord has a spirit, but so does a man. Does that make a man a duet? If a man has a son and they both think and act alike are they a triune? Why be concerned about spiritual things that the word of God doesn't speak about, if they actually do exist? Now when God's spirit is in all the members of His church, what do we call that? When we are all one with God and His son? How about this trinity that is also not called a trinity: The Father, The Son, and His Bride. Now if we expect the Holy Spirit to enlighten us concerning matters that are not commonly comprehended, we must have that spirit within us. Are you, sir, a sabbath keeper? Do you keep that day holy? The Lord only gives His spirit to those who obey Him. You know 'these are the saints of God, those who have the testimony of Yeshua, and keep the commandments of God'. Those who obey the gospel. What is the gospel? REPENT. Those in the 'christian' social club throw the word gospel around as though it were mana, feeding the sheep. Yet they ingnore the heart of the gospel. REPENT. ok, I'll quit.
lonnie
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Re: Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/10/07 06:27:30 PM |
Age 53, IA |
We all know the Father is God; Jesus prayed TO Him in the Garden of Gesthemane. That makes two and I will get to three momentarily.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word WAS God. The same was in the beginning WITH God...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us." (John 1:1, 2, 14). Again, that makes two. (The Word was WITH God and WAS God as well)
In Chapter 5 of Acts, when Ananias and Sapphira kept back part of what they were giving, Peter said, "Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the HOLY SPIRIT...?" You have not lied to men, BUT TO GOD." (Acts 5:3, 4); this personifies the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a Person also distinguished from Jesus as He said "I will send you ANOTHER comforter."
ALL THREE Persons of the Trinity were present at Jesus' baptism. The Father ("This is my beloved Son"), the Holy Spirit (in the form of a dove), and of course, Jesus was there. Jesus said to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son, AND the Holy Spirit; while "name" is singular, the Persons of the Trinity are distinguished.
God is One, yes, but "ECHAD". That's the same term referred to when speaking of marriage (the two become one). The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are in complete, total unity with each other as revealed in Jesus' prayer also, "that they may be one as WE are."
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/10/07 04:58:48 PM |
Age 52, OK |
The question of authority, of course. is the Scripture alone. If a man disagrees with the scripture, he has undermined all authority. No matter how much "blessing" seems to be present in way of a large audience or publishing, he simply has nothing to say to the body of Christ. I would not call Silva's evalution of Page's response "sarcasm" but a touch of humor. The point was, of course, that Page had simply nothing to say when he should have responded to a blatant mixture of those who stand for the entire Word of God as opposed to those who do not.
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