SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 07/04/08 09:30:55 PM |
Age 55, MS |
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Non-Denominational Layman
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/24/07 07:34:16 PM |
Age 61, TX |
If you go back and read Silva's letter to Page, you'll see it was done in the spirit of deep concern, he expressed his respect for Page, and a desire for a response. He thanked Page for his time. However, if you read Page's reply, it was not a response to anything Silva addressed. Page's entire 3 sentence statement was a cop-out. It was so generic, he could have a drawer full of identical little notes, and have all kinds of situations for which he might feel they would suffice. He did what so many others are doing today, namely, using the diplomatic, politically correct, TOLERANT way out. The first thing that comes to my mind is always that they must have something personally on the line. I do wonder what it is for Page. You mentioned "an unyielding conviction that the Bible is wholly authoritative." One that, we agree. Wasn't that the basis of why Silva wrote to Page? If so, how could anyone see Page's non-response as "powerful, gracious and true..." when he dodged the Biblical issue being addressed?
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/22/07 08:18:33 PM |
Age 61, TX |
I don't think they're in the same race at all with Pastor Silva, who wants to be sure people are led to the GENUINE Messiah. How will they know unless they are told? Would you consider that the Holy Spirit might have had a part in what inspired Pastor Silva, who is trying to tell them what's happening! As to how Jesus would conduct business--He would probably do the same thing today that He did when He drove the sellers and money changers out of the temple, or when he gave the Pharisees all the woes---and called them a brood of vipers. Jesus never misidentified the fake for the authentic, and He boldly demonstrated that. Interestingly, the ones who come to mind were all supposed to be the "religious" leaders of the day! Why do you feel Jakes or Young would ever be "needed," if they preach or remain silent and tolerate a different gospel? For what? To you and all the tenacious people who are so critical of Pastor Silva, I'd like to say that he's in good company; people were also very critical of Jesus, the apostles, and the early church fathers.
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Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/18/07 12:42:38 PM |
Age 53, WI |
If your premise that anger is an appropriate response to evil - to that I am in whole-hearted agreement. I don't even have to pray about that. However, what I am prayerfully considering is the comparison of the manifestation of our Lord's righteous anger, as He cleared the temple, to the anger generated when a Christian's decision (for some reason) to offer a gracious (but admittedly unsatisfying) response to a valid question results in anger. I can understand Pastor Silva's frustration but have a hard time aligning sarcasm, self-promotion and anger with biblical admonitions that govern Christian relationships and present evidence of our salvation: gentleness, kindness, self-control, patience...and where is the love? Regardless of Pastor Silva's feelings, just how great was Dr. Page's offense? Thus far, my prayers still leave me saddened by Pastor Silva's response.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/18/07 12:11:29 PM |
Age 53, WI |
Perhaps. However, just because a fish doesn't take the bait that doesn't not mean it's not hungry...just wary. I suspect Dr. Page either sensed the sharpened hook of suspicious intent or Pastor Silva was correct in his suspicions that Dr. Page does not hold him in high enough academic regard to answer him. The world is full of self-taught, self-proclaimed experts. The world is not full of men who have been through the fires of the academic rigors demanded when one must submit to the authority of other trained academics (Godly or Ungodly) and have come through it all, by God's grace, with a stronger faith in God, a greater love for God, a greater love for neighbor, and an unyielding conviction that the Bible is wholly authoritative. Taken at face value, Dr. Pages reply was powerful, gracious and true...but perhaps not satisfying. Sometimes a man's intent is obvious. The fact that Dr. Page's was not doesn't seem to justify the belittling he received. Sometimes a man's intent does not need to be stated because his reputation speaks for itself and, unless Pastor Silva's letter to Dr. Page contained undue flattery, he perceived Dr. Page as a man of good reputation.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/15/07 11:38:01 AM |
Age 30, TN |
"Wow! You caught me hook line and sinker on that one." You bet he did. Mr. Silva cast his lure and you took the bait just like many of Silva's other readers who are duped by his misleading article titles and sensationalized writing style. "I was expecting an hermeneutic endeavor into this topic and was looking forward to it." And like many of his other readers, you too were disappointed with what you discovered as you read on further. Yep, Mr. Silva is a master of the "bait and switch" technique all right, just like many shady salesmen with no scruples. Way to go Ken! You fooled another one! --Brian
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Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/15/07 10:27:44 AM |
Age 30, TN |
You would not call Silva's evalution of Page's response "sarcasm"?! What in the world would you call sarcasm then? How much of a smart-alec must someone sound like before you would say "That person is being sarcastic"? It sounds to me as though you are being politically correct in an attempt to defend someone you happen to like, as in, "He's not rude or impolite; he's just manners-challenged." I say if it quacks like a duck, call it what it is.
--Brian
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Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/15/07 09:37:59 AM |
Age 30, TN |
Mr. Silva has presented us in this article with his analysis of Dr. Page's response to his letter. Perhaps we should also analyze Mr. Silva's letter to Dr. Page (also quoted in its entirety in this article). Mr. Silva begins: "Dear Dr. Page, Please know that I wouldnt attempt to contact you if I didnt think we have a very serious problem here." Now it should be understood that where Mr. Silva says "we" he means "you, Dr. Page," as in, "I have a problem, and I want you to deal with it for me so I don't have to do anything myself." Mr. Silva continues: "as I point out in this post at Slice Get Ready - Creative Church Conference 2007 is A-Coming: http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/archives/2006/12/get_ready_creat.php," where we should understand him to mean "here is a shameless plug advertising my own interests, and a not very subtle attempt to assert my own importance and authority." Mr. Silva's next paragraph reads "When Dr. Young yokes himself with Word Faith Oneness Pentecostal T.D. Jakes this should be of the utmost concern. For a former two time president of our convention to publicly endorse T.D. Jakes as a legitimate Christian brother is simply inexcusable." Here we should understand him to mean something like "This is an example of what I do with my 'Ministry of Discernment,' which might easily be confused with being a professional tattle-tale." And again, "this should be of the utmost concern" could also read "here is a hot potato I that I am concerned about, and I want to hand it over to you to deal with for me." Mr. Silva's concluding remarks are as follows: "As someone I respect I would very much appreciate hearing back from you concerning what you have to say about this. Dr. Page, I thank you for you time and may the Lord have mercy on us." This latter portion of Mr. Silva's letter is best illuminated by his sarcastic analysis of Dr. Page's response, i.e., Mr. Silva was not being at all sincere when he penned these words. It is obvious that Mr. Silva does not respect Dr. Page, nor does he value or appreciate his time as he claims to do, else he would not attempt to publicly besmirch Dr. Page and drag his name through the mud simply because Dr. Page handed Mr. Silva's hot potato back to him and did not publicly reprimand the men Silva is tattling on. And that is how, as another responder put it, a learned man like Mr. Silva can come across like a screaming brat. --Brian
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Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/14/07 03:27:46 PM |
Age 55, FL |
You could pray about it, too, Silva.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/14/07 03:25:03 PM |
Age 55, AZ |
That's what the Floridian was stating, that God convicts rather than man. Silva cannot convict any one person or people groups... that's for the Lord to do. Silva believes that by writing articles, we'll feel conviction. Rather, it is God's holy word, the Bible, that leads us to repentance and conviction.
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Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/13/07 10:33:27 PM |
Age 47, MO |
Sometimes a misguided statement needs a snappy comeback, and this was a good one. T.D. Jakes and his fellow Oneness heretics and Word/Faith hucksters are more like Sanballet, Tobiah, and Gesham (Nehemiah 4:1-8, 6:1-7), and Ken Silva is more like Ezra and Nehemiah.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/13/07 03:01:42 PM |
Age 51, NH |
Excellent point! Now just reverse your analogy and you've got it.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/13/07 02:08:15 AM |
Age 61, TX |
May I suggest you read 2 books by John MacArthur? "RECKLESS FAITH: WHEN THE CHURCH LOSES ITS WILL TO DISCERN" and CHARISMATIC CHAOS:SIGNS & WONDERS, SPEAKING IN TONGUES, HEALTH, WEALTH &PROSPERITY, CHARISMATIC TELEVANGELISM, DOES GOD STILL SPEAK TODAY?" MacArthur gives references, documentation, and thoroughly covers the topic. Or go to http://www.forgottenword.org/jakes.html
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Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/13/07 01:58:44 AM |
Age 61, TX |
You are not alone. Thanks to you, John MacArthur and other Godly courageous men, and discernment, many realize the truth. We've researched the teachings and quotes of T.D.Jakes, and it reminds me of when OT Scripture was quoted to Jesus in the wilderness...so close to sounding right to the ear, but still wrong! God bless you! Persevere!
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/12/07 09:27:47 PM |
Age 30, TN |
Mr Silva is a learned man in some scholarly disciplines, yes. In tact or common courtesy, no, he is not. And as he said above, his lack of tact has cost him financially and has adversely affected his ability to provide for his family. I can't say I am surprised either. Attacking Dr Page for no other reason than that his polite response to some letter was shorter than Mr Silva had hoped for was, in my opinion, not a very wise course of action. Mr Silva seems to not very readily accept anyone else's authority anyway, whether as a peer or as a superior. It is no surprise that he reacts this way when he feels snubbed. --Brian
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Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/12/07 04:18:15 PM |
Age 47, AL |
To take an image from Nehemiah, Mr. Page is busy "building the wall" (building God's Kingdom). His response could have been as Nehemiah to his "pesky" detractors: "I am carrying on a great project and cannot go down. Why should the work stop while I leave it and go down to you." (6:3). My prayer is that some day you, Mr. Silva, will take your great intellect and learning up on the "wall" and work alongside of "Nehemiah's" like Mr. Page, so that the work will get done before the LOrd returns.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/12/07 03:40:48 PM |
Age 30, TN |
Thank you for your post. I share your sentiment. Just don't expect too much from any response by Mr. Silva though. I say Mr. rather than "Pastor" because he is not my pastor, nor is he the pastor of many of his readers. However, in his responses to readers who disagree with any portion of his writings (content, style, tone or otherwise) Mr. Silva assumes the role of a critical parent or a domineering tyrant-like pastor, and attempts to weild that trumped-up authority like a sledge hammer, as that is what he is accustomed to doing in other formats. But this format, an online debate setting, places every participant in the discussion on equal footing. There is no prerequisite here for letting your opinion be known. Mr. Silva cannot accept that fact though, and it burns him up that there are people in this setting from whom he cannot demand respect. He is simply incapable of responding in any sort of nurturing, brotherly manner or of relating to anyone as a peer. He cannot comprehend that his authority over others is not what he pretends it to be. Thus when anyone disagrees with him, his response is basically another assertion of his authority, and a denial of the validity of any point made by the other person based on their lack of authority to make such a point. --Brian
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T.D. Jakes is a greedmonger and a false teacher
| Posted On: 01/11/07 10:15:46 PM |
Age 47, MO |
The responders who defend T.D. Jakes need to realize that the time for personally confronting him has passed long ago. Jakes never repented of his Oneness heresies, so we must treat him like a Roman Tax Collector! Jakes and his defenders deserve every bit of sarcasm directed at them; just as Ahab, Jezebel, and the priests of Baal deserved Elijah's sarcasm; the Pharisees deserved Jesus' sarcasm; and the Corinthians who bragged about their sins deserved Paul's sarcasm. Those who defend Jakes' false doctrine don't seem to know the difference between a "person" and a "manifestation." They also don't know how Oneness Pentecostals strain at gnats (they say every Christian has to speak in tongues), but they swallow some very large camels by denying the Trinity. Even if T.D. Jakes speaks any truth, that truth can be acquired from literally thousands of real Christian leaders WITHOUT the Oneness false doctrine nor the health-and-wealth greedmongering. I thank Ken Silva for speaking the truth.
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/11/07 02:33:40 PM |
Age 37, NC |
THAT....was....funny!!!
Too quick to anger makes us look kinda foolish...
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Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
| Posted On: 01/11/07 11:36:31 AM |
Age 51, NH |
Thank you very much for your kind words in the Lord. They mean much to this very weary soldier. You are quite right that the guns of the enemy will fire upon us, and I am not a machine. Sadly in this issue the leaders within the evangelical community have showed by their ignoring this critical issue that they are not going to defend the Trinity and my financial support has also been hit hard. Regardless I am constrained to fight on to the end..."though none go with me, still I will follow."
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