Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/26/06 01:09:36 PM |
Age 51, CA |
If you stand in agreement with those who Dr. Jones reports about, you have not grown or progressed beyond what the historic faith has taught. Rather, you have bought into the idea that darkness is easier on the eyes than light, for the advocates of these 'new ideas' are really advocating the old, pagan earth religions and the old immoralities found within them. It helps to study history, for we see when we do that old errors pop up in every generation under different names and in different clothes while the truth in Christ remains constant.
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Even if America isn't (or never was) a Christian nation...
| Posted On: 12/13/06 12:51:59 PM |
Age 18, MN |
that doesn't mean that issues such as abortion, homosexuality, etc. aren't to challenged. Reason: It goes all the way back to the beginning of creation. God made the world and he set down some rules, including what marriage really is (one man and one woman for life) and the sanctity of life. Now AIDS is a problem, and we, as Christians, should be out trying to help deal with it. However, a major way to stop the spreading of it is abstinence, which isn't the most popular choice for the culture today. Is the enviroment a major issue? It certainly is, God made the world, so we better take care of his creation. Is poverty something that should be dealt with? Yes, we are to help those in need, since Jesus set an example of helping our neighbors. War...well, we can be against it all we want (even if it's just and prudent), but we should keep in mind that Jesus predicted that just before the end times would be "rumors of war and wars, famines, etc.". This doesn't give an excuse to sit on the couch all day and do nothing, but we should keep in mind of these things. Genocide in Africa is a serious issue, but much of it (if I recall correctly) is against Christians (again, this isn't an excuse for us to do nothing). Capital punishment...well, the Bible does say that murderers are to be punished with execution (Gen. 9:6) because man is made in the image of God (and therefore highly valued). My point is that, you are correct to assess that Christians sometimes miss the forest for the trees. But that doesn't mean that we should not challenge those who are inconsistant or promoting anti-Christian teachings (that being said, we should recognize that Jesus said that we shouldn't condemn anyone or judge hypocritically). Final Point: I do recognize that Christians are inconsistant and even hypocritical (I don't have to go any farther than looking at myself). However, I would go far enough to say that everyone is hypocritical in some way, regardless of their religion (or even so-called irreligion). But that's why we (Christians now) are to look to the Bible as our authority and not man's ideas (regardless of whether or not we are conservative or liberal). Have a great day!!!!
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Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/12/06 12:04:28 AM |
Age 19, VA |
maybe its not that were being broken down and "crumbling," maybe we're just growing beyond what you've taught us. Ideas are growing, maybe you should too.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/11/06 10:16:23 PM |
Age 20, MN |
Porter, I was not rejecting the authority if the bible. I was just pointing the fact that the 51-year old from georgia misused the bible there. Ryan was not going against the things put forth in those verses. If it seemed like it was, then it was a misunderstanding because i know him personally (i live with him). I am encouraged to hear about how God has shown love and truth to you in your life. He continually is faithful to me as well.
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Re: Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/11/06 04:40:05 PM |
Age 54, NZ |
I understand very well what you say. I have three children, all of which have attended secular universities, (our youngest just completed his second year) and they have had to function in that viciously anti-God environment. I praise the Lord that they have done so successfully, continuing to grow spiritually throughout. Why is that? I believe the primary reasons are two: #1 They are in fact born again. You speak of the number of youngsters who walk away from the Christian faith. It is true that many walk away from their family religion, but that is not at all the same as saying that the Devil successfully destroyed one of Gods children. We manipulate little children into making a profession of faith in those tender years when they will say whatever they perceive will please their parents, instead of waiting on the Holy Spirit to bring them to true understanding and faith in Christ. Why should we be surprised if later on they are swayed in a different direction by a different authority figure? #2 The second reason my children survived was that they were fairly well-grounded in the truth of Gods word. We did not abdicate our responsibilities to some worldly nonsense dressed up as "Youth Ministry" down at the church. Nor was our focus (as Dr Jones article) on the insane ideas of lost people, but on the principles and precepts of the word of God. The only reason a person is deceived by error is that they do not have enough of a grasp of the truth to discern the difference. Believe me, in the raising of our children, my wife and I did anything but stick our heads in the sand. We are very much aware of this evil world system, but safety is not found in promoting a nervous fortress mentality by constantly reporting on the bad guys. Safety is in saturating our minds with the word of God, whose truth is more than able to defend us and expose error when we meet with it. So it remains my opinion that while Dr Jones demonstrated a strong stomach, he accomplished nothing useful by going down in the sewer.
- Tumbleweed
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Re: Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/11/06 01:52:38 PM |
Age 51, GA |
Au contraire mon ami... I beg to differ my little brother in Christ. It was exactly appropriate, as a graduate of two colleges myself, I know how easy it is for one to stray from the faith. I was on a long prodigal journey for many years. By the grace of God, I survived long enough to come to know what it means to be born again, to be renewed in my faith. The Word is the ultimate authority here, and if there is some of it you don't like or disagree with, then there needs to be some repenting, prayer, and fasting. Pride and ego, truly offensive to God on our part, are the engines that typically drive opinions differing from the Word. If you differ from the Word, what are you doing? The Word being Christ, you travel on dangerous ground. The forces of anti-Christ travel that ground. Beware little brother...
By the way, my name is Porter. +++
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Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/11/06 12:24:01 PM |
Age 20, MN |
i know i already posted, so i wont take too much of your time with this one. Dr. Jones mentions Jim Wallis and his supposed Democratic evils, and then said "One small but bright light came from a Canadian scholar who accused Wallis of nationalistic idolatry for making America, rather than the church, the source of Gospel action". I see a problem with this. Yes, i, just as much as anyone, do not want America to become the source of Gospel action instead of the church. Regardless what some may tell you, we are not God's chosen nation, and thus the church must be independent of the government. However, even if Wallis was trying to make America the driver behind spreading the Gospel (which he isnt), the Christian Right is doing the EXACT same thing, just with emphasis on different issues. The Christian Right wants the government to uphold certain christian morals (specifically abortion and homosexuality), and yet they get on the case of anyone they feel is doing the same thing but with poverty and war and AIDS and environmental stewardship. If you do not see the hypocrisy in this, then i will try again to show you how much of a double-standard that is. i do agree with Wallis' theories, but not all of his applications, and even so, it doesnt matter, because he is doing something that needs to be done: trying to give equal attention and value to other issues that christians care about, namely AIDS, genocide in Africa, environment, poverty, war, capital punishment.
I would continue, but i told myself i need to start posting smaller entries, and i have to start on my math. Any questions??? please respond
-Dan
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Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/11/06 10:55:52 AM |
Age 56, CA |
Unfortunately, we cannot turn a blind eye to the heretical movement in our midst. The "church" has been afflicted with the stench of the sewer as it has crept in oh so subtely!
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Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/11/06 10:16:32 AM |
Age 38, CO |
Woa!!! Slow down young buck. Have you gone back and read your article? For such a young, emerging, and "tolerant" person who understands the "love" that Jesus demonstrated in the Bible, your post is very attacking. No one is trying to "shove" anything down your throat or anyone else's for that matter. Dr. Jones is simply sharing his concern for the biblically inaccurate teaching to college students today. The truth is not being taught today to college students in our churches. Your post gives validity to Dr. Jones report as you reguritate the views of neo-evangical/emerging church rhetoric perfectly. Everyone is allowed to share his/her opinion, it's up to you to decide if you believe and accept their opinion. If you agree with a person's opinion, then you take action. If you disagree, then you go your way, but make sure you have studied all sides of the issue(s). There is no need to be so "testy and disrespectful" when you disagree with someone's opinion; especially an elder four times your age with more wisdom, knowledge, and experience. Don't discount someone's opinion and knowledge based on their age; doing so just makes you look young and ignorant.
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Re: Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/11/06 08:10:51 AM |
Age 41, AL |
How can I help, please let me know what I can do for you and this all Important ministry. This is truely so sad that this is taking place. Of cource i am sure it will only get worse if we don't stand up and defend the faith, even until death.
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Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/10/06 09:59:02 PM |
Age 20, MN |
To the 51 year old from georgia, i believe your quotation of scripture here is misused. Here's why: while ryan did have one sentence in his article that was a little innapropriate and overly harsh, for the most part his post was not disrespecting at all. Plus, considering the fact that i am one of ryan's roommates, i can personally attest that he is not disrespectful. I would appreciate it if people who are older than us wuld stop accusing us of being disrespectful whenever our feedback is in opposition to the writer of the article. I post a lot on this website, and too many i have been stereo-typed for my age and too many times i have been accused of disrespect, derision, and rebellion. The same goes from another fellow from the UN who is my age and is constantly attacked because of his age.
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Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/10/06 09:53:58 PM |
Age 51, GA |
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned." Hebrews 6:4-8
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Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/10/06 09:15:48 PM |
Age 41, NM |
Sir, I am 41 years old and have two children in college. The people leading these conferences are infiltrating university campuses at an alarming rate. They are out to deceive born again Christians. A very high percentage of children raised in Christian homes walk away from the Christian faith when they go off to university campuses in the United States. Professors wait like carnivores ready to pounce on young Christians in their classroom and challenge everything that mom and dad and especially their church has taught them over the years. And one of the primary battlegrounds is that of absolute right and wrong verses moral relativity. If a young person is not very grounded and prepared for the battle they will face, they are little more than lambs led to the slaughter. I am thankful that the author had the courage to go, and more than that, the courage to develop programs that will engage young people on these issues and battle back. If he or someone else doesn't do this our next generation will have little hope of holding to any moral purity. Sticking our head in the sand and pretneding that it doesn't exist, or if it does it won't hurt us, is foolish.
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Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/10/06 08:46:05 PM |
Age 48, TX |
Ryan,
I'd be very careful. The items that were "shoved down your throat" must be proved, not just "re-examined". You will likely find after you do that that 95% of those things you learned were the same that were believed and practiced by generations, all the way back to the Puritans and likely further back to the apostles. Why? Because they reflect biblical truth. As Paul said "...For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." As Solomon said "there is nothing new under the sun". Many of today's new ideas are nothing but open rebellion against God, and if you will study history the fundamental arguments behind them have been repeated throughout history. I know nothing of Wright and his new Pauline theory, but if it doesn't line-up with Scripture, it needs to be rejected - wholeheartedly.
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Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/10/06 05:40:53 PM |
Age 72, OK |
You just suggested that we should let the blind lead the blind. Would it not be merciful to point the blind to a source of
Light?
Your reply reveals why we have such cess pools!
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Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/10/06 02:34:55 PM |
Age 54, NZ |
The only question that arose in my mind as I read Dr Jone's piece is, "What in the world is he doing there?" If we know the sewer is full of filth, we don't feel inclined to go down there to report on it surely? Does anyone seriously think that these people are going to sneak up on born again, Bible-believing, Christ-loving soul and deceive them? No, the deceptions scripture warns us about are much subtler than that! Let the blind lead the blind wherever they wish to go. We have better things to do than to pay them any mind.
- Tumbleweed
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Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/10/06 11:55:39 AM |
Age 51, GA |
"Rebuke not an elder, but intreat [him] as a father..." 1 Tim 5:1
"Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine." 1 Tim 5:17
"Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble." 1 Peter 5:5
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Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/10/06 11:23:00 AM |
Age 53, OK |
Should we expect anything less? The Church is splintering, lacking discernment and compromising the authority of Scripture.
Each generation must be like the Bereans: turn to the Scriptures and examine them to see whether what they've been taught is true.
Denominations, movements, and systematic theologies can be useful tools to help us to understand the Word. But the next generation becomes busy protecting the tools, and eventually, like the Scribes and Pharisees, loses track of the forest amid the trees.
We lose track of the truth among the many "-isms".
The development of Evangelicalism was a movement away from fundamental biblical truth; neo-evangelicalism continues the departure (greek = apostasia).
Unfortunately fundamentalism - basically the correct position - has, in practice, become stereotypically obnoxious and unloving.
There is truth and there is error. There is no "common ground" but there should be grace while proclaiming and defending the truth.
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Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/09/06 11:17:28 PM |
Age 52, WI |
Are the groups and individuals you've described in this article descriptive of what is currently considered neo-evangelical? I remember when a Conservative Baptist Church I attended as a teen was branded neo-evangelical and our pastor was removed from a CBA Camp Board by certain Bob Jones University men in the organization because it was rumored that one of the CBFMS missionaries we supported in Japan prayed with a Lutheran. In those days a number of men were black listed for one reason or another and forced to take on the mantle of neo-evangelical because they didn't fall in line with BJU sensibilities. These men (Jack Van Impe being one of the more notable names) were a far cry from the groups you are describing in this report. I'm a bit confused.
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Re: Re: Dr. Peter Jones Reports on Conference Held by Neo-Evangelicals
| Posted On: 12/09/06 09:43:33 PM |
Age 47, TN |
I don't believe that Dr Jones was railing against Christian school students in general, but simply stating that so many have grown liberal and cold toward a true Biblical Christianity. I also went to a Christian college, and can understand your concerns about feeling maligned. There is definitely nothing wrong with dressing casually for church. This has become more common in America as it allows one to focus more on the message and fellowship, instead of feeling like you have to compete with everyone else.
I have watched as many of our Christian colleges have gradually become the same as our public universities. I think that Dr Jones primary concern in this article was to showcase the liberal theology and non-Biblical mindsets of supposed Evangelical theologians that daily teach our children. He was trying to portray how far our nation has strayed from the Word. Few seem to realize that many teachers attend schools where they're taught to be 'change agents' in the classroom, focused on doing what they can to change the mores of our young people and to destroy their Christian faith.
Brent in Knoxville
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