Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 01:25:07 PM |
Age 63, OR |
The Jews have had over 4000 years to come to realize the error of their selfish ways regarding God, and 2000 years about Jesus; so, it shouldn't be too amazing to realize that Christians too can be slow to understand the error of their ways ... even when their brothers and sisters continue to reveal their sin of following men rather than God! Just as this article centers...the church growth movement (progressive liberalization of the church) is man-centered not Christ-centered.
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Re: Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 12:38:21 PM |
Age 40, TN |
Thank you. I'm glad I am not the only one who thought the baby was going out with the bath water. Well said!
Pastor David Smith
Lenoir City First Church of the Nazarene
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 12:33:26 PM |
Age 49, FL |
Typical conservative christian nonsense! You pretend to be a Bible believer but if so use it in your arguement rather than argueing with your ignorant and biased opinion!! I will apply Proverbs 16:25 right back at ya!
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 12:28:07 PM |
Age 40, TN |
I understand the point and agree in principle but I really must ask for much more careful consideration in some of the specifics: ie;
The ingredients are as follows: man-centered theology,(I preach based on Christ-centered theology) relevant messages that solve peoples problems by meeting their needs,(Are you suggesting we preach irrelevant messages that don't solve problems and does not address peoples needs? That is definitely not a Christocentric model if that is the case. Jesus always confronted people at the deepest point of thier need without fear or favor) events and programs that reach out to the community,(Are you saying we ought to do away with events and programs that reach out and by some means wins people to the Lord? Are we to be completely unconcerned with larger social, moral, cultural, matters and only stick to the in-house issues? Christ sure seemed concerned with matters of social justice, or moral character and cultural blindness) and music that is contemporary and entertaining (How about music in Worship that draws our focus to Christ? Is that contemporary? Traditional? Blended? Can you define for me which "Style" of music is biblical for worship? I am part of a tradition that has utilizes many styles and I've witnessed every style coming off as entertainment. The point of using the tool of music, whatever style or combination of styles, is to focus on Christ in worship.) For best results, remove pews(we still have pews and what it wrong if we don't?), dress casual,(Does God care if I am in a tie or not? Does my attire demonstrate a modicum of modesty so as not to distract others from focusing on Christ? If so then thank God I can come to worship Him just as I am without one plea) and install a 5000 lumen projector(Ours is only 3000 because our sanctuary does not necessitate that large of a projector. For those who still prefer the Hymnal it is in the pew back.) If taken weekly (not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, regularly, intentionally for proclamation, teaching, discipleship, and genuine fellowship) and if you follow a regimented marketing strategy,(Pray together corporately and individually in a disciplined regular way until you hear from heaven) you are guaranteed growth.(Spiritual and numerical) The side effects may include unbelievers in leadership, false converts, uncommitted members, and shallow minds.(Yes if you don't love the Lord with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and your neighbor as yourself. Yes if you don't GO into all the world, preaching the Gospel, making disciples, teaching them to obey all that Christ Commanded.)
People are coming to know Christ as their Saviour, and they are being discipled, and given opportunities to take that Good News to others in service to our community, our nation, and even beyond our borders. We have a big screen, we sing a blend of contemporay and traditional music, We reach out into our community with events and programs, we cooperate with other denominations to evangelize the lost and to feed the poor. I have a whole congregation of people who love the Lord with all thier heart, soul, mind, and strength and love their neighbors as themselves. They are bringing them to the church to find the Lord.
There is no hormone! It's a myth! But just because we are growing using some of the tools mentioned above does not mean we are unbiblical or operating out of an unbiblical worldview. Be more careful and give more thought to what you are putting out there. I feel like you used a blanket to smother me and every other pastor and church that is growing using "tools". We are not compromising the Great Command or the Great Commission and as long as I have breath in me I will never put my integrity away from me in this.
Pastor David D. Smith
Lenoir City First Church of the Nazarene
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 12:27:34 PM |
Age 60, AZ |
Finally, an article that let's me know that there is at least one pastor who understands one of the basic problems with today's churches!
From worship (or what passes for worship!)to the watered down and almost apologetic messages that I have heard coming from some pulpits, today's pastors are so concerned with what they see as being relevent and successful that they are moving right into apostacy.
We use the world's tools (because our Lord can use a little help getting his message out of course), make people feel good, increase the numbers and walla! You have a successful church.
Then we wonder why our light has dimmed and we are no longer salt. How tragic.
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 12:25:04 PM |
Age 24, WA |
Amen Brother!
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 12:08:33 PM |
Age 33, FL |
What an excellent article. This is the struggle for the life of the Church today. So many Churches have lost site of the great commission.
Look at Mark 15:15. He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
Notice that Jesus didn't say, let them bring the world to you so you can love them. It says to GO, as in take Jesus to the world. The World should not change or influence the Church, instead, the Church should change and influence the World.
Keep Preaching the Truth, yes the ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 12:04:32 PM |
Age 43, WA |
thank God someone from the pulpit has seen the error of focusing on numbers!
Now I have hope that the Lord is still moving
within the church.
I stopped attending church regularly for the reasons written in this article. It seemed people were losing interest in the word of God, the will of God, and following Christ according to the word of God.(within the church body)
It is my hope that THIS message will spread throughout the pulpits all over the U.S.!
the members need something we can trust... which is the word of God (in Christ) without wavering, and a willingness follow Him.
Thank you Pastor, for your faithfulness to God. You don't know how long I have been waiting to hear these very words. thank you for encouraging me in my walk.
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:57:27 AM |
Age 52, NY |
Pastor,
Thank you for your honesty. There are many Pastors today who need to hear your message. The next revival will depand upon repentance by our leadership. Which of today's success driven ministers will be willing to pray for a drought, economic failure or national set back to correct our wayward culture? These circumstances will inconvienence our lifestyle significantly, yet when worldliness is the problem, our lifestyles do need to be intterupted.
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:56:18 AM |
Age 36, MI |
AMEN!! Far too often the church focuses on numbers instead of the true growth that leads people to Christ. In my denomination, we have the Annual Church Profile that we fill out, most denominations probably have the same. But this profile is all about numbers, attendance and baptism. It asks nothing about how the pastor is growing in His relationship with the Lord. It asks nothing about what evidence there is that the congregation is growing spiritually. It is like an assumption that if they are converted and baptized, they will automatically grow into disciples.
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:38:24 AM |
Age 46, NJ |
Well, Pastior Baumann must've given up on CGH & used the Calvary Chapel formula, which is to get back & teach the Bible from cover to cover, verse by verse. Actually Calvary Chapel "stole" the idea from Jesus Himself, but it's ok, He let us do that!!!
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:37:58 AM |
Age 62, IA |
He is right. We are growing hugh churches of fluff. Our churches are no longer Christ centered institutions of Biblical truth, merely social centers.
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:27:37 AM |
Age 56, SK |
Your words challenge the reader and cut to the heart of the problems of all of us. By not mentioning anyone by name we are encouraged to examine ourselves and apply your experience to our own. Thank you for your inspiring words and a hearty "Amen"
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:26:18 AM |
Age 53, PA |
Amen! That is what Christ teaches in "Great Commission". That is " Making Disciples ".
Thanks.
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:24:29 AM |
Age 47, TX |
Thank you. I agree that we should not be concerned about Church growth. I'm a deacon
in a Church that is in a older neighborhood.
In a recent deacon's meeting. A fellow deacon
said that "We need to reach out to the people
with the two hundred and the one hundred thousand homes rather than the people in our
Church neighborhood". I couldn't beleive that he said that. He concerned about how much people give. We should be concerned about doing what God says and he will take care of our needs!
Franklin
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:23:48 AM |
Age 41, AL |
Amen! Praise God that he spoke to you in this way! The C.G.M. can be a very dangerous substance. I pray many more people in church leadership will be drawn by the Spirit of God to do what you have done. Bless you!
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:21:56 AM |
Age 52, WA |
Congratulations Ray on having your blinders removed. Be prepared to have your numbers start to shrink. People hate the Truth of God for the most part. They don't like to be uncomfortable and the Bible makes everyone uncomfortable sooner or later. I hope you survive to speak the Truth for years to come.Be prepared to learn things you had no idea could possibly be, but are...
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:17:41 AM |
Age 47, FL |
This is one of the best articles I have read! Thank you for posting it.
Yes, the Church needs to grow. But the church is a group of called out BELIEVERS, not unbelievers.
Thus if we want to see the Church grow, we need to reach out to the lost, where the lost are, then once they are saved, bring them into the Church.
I.e. Instead of being an inviting Church, we need to be an invading Church.
That requires strong believers, thus we can't have a weak Church.
Kees
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:11:41 AM |
Age 51, AR |
Thanks for this article. It is encouraging to see someone write about the fact they "were" involved with the church growth movement, but with further study came out of it. It seems there are many who are not willing to admit their error. We can all fall into error if we are not careful to measure every teaching by God's Word. Especially in these times, as we long to see people saved, we still must stay on the alert to false teaching. May God bless those pastors who are remaining faithful to defend His Word, yet may be seeing no conversions. I believe that too is a sign of the times, but also that there is a great need for pastors to feed their flocks, even if they remain small. (Praise God for his faithful servants!)
Thanks again!
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Re: Church Growth Hormone - a Biblically Banned Substance
| Posted On: 12/07/06 11:11:40 AM |
Age 49, OH |
I agree with the premise contained in this article. As I reflect on the messages preached from the pulpit Sunday after Sunday, few contain the gospel which we are told to preach. There is a place for the self-help messages, but the focal must begin with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
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