Re: Re: Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 12/11/06 05:01:20 PM |
Age 44, NJ |
Ruben (not "Reuben" right? Sorry for misspelling your name),
Let's go back to the basic message of Christianity, which is what you want to know about: There is none good, all have sinned, everyone is selfish, no one considers others before themselves. That is what God, Yahweh, says. We have all violated the Ten Commandments. The only punishment for crimes against God is Hell.
The reasonableness of Hell can be understood in the fact that the object of the crime determines the severity of the punishment.
Lie to me, no big deal.
Lie to Mom and Dad, you get punished
Lie to a policeman or a judge, you may get jail or a fine.
Lie to Congress and thats considered treasonous.
Lie to God, the One who gave you life and the air to breathe and you deserve eternal Hell.
BUT THAT IS NOT GOD'S WILL FOR YOU!!!
I am very sorry to hear your mother has cancer. My step-dad died of throat cancer, singing praises to God. It's not the dieing, it's HOW you die. Will you face death fearless, as any Christian can, knowing you are forgiven and KEPT by God HIMSELF? Or will you face the Judgment seat of Jesus where there is only ONE sentence (Christians never have to go there. I can explain more why later if you wish).
But, the one who made you wants to rescue you so much he came to this earth, lived as a man, died horribly in your stead and raised himself from death to show the grave could not hold him. Jesus defeated death! So you can trust that relying upon him is always the best choice, even if you are slowly dieing of cancer.
Remember "entropy" in class? Cancer is one of the nasty results of the universal entropic decay which all mankind, all of creation, is experiencing. The Bible calls it The Fall.
Ruben Shade, God has an option for you if you will take it. You do not have to enter everlasting punishment for being consummately self-centered all your life, like we all are, but for God's delivering mercy some recieve.
Ruben, we have conversed publicly for a reason. You are TIRED of false claims and false promises of many professing Christianity. I UNDERSTAND THAT. That is why I can be patient with you. I too used anger to test others and their claims of peace and joy.
But when I found Gods people I found they could not be swayed, no matter WHAT I did, or how bitter I was. They taught me what Gods love REALLY is.
Ruben I have been through the ringer following Jesus, it's no cake walk. But the end is Peace and everlasting life. Dont let anyone tell you being a Christian, a disciple of Jesus, is sweetness and light. No way. Jesus promised persecutions and painful struggles to his followers. Just LOOK at what happened to his disciples!
So don't think you can fool God with pretension. You must be honest, for he sees and knows all you are and will ever be or do. God knows every thought you have ever had. So, my friend, you must be BORN AGAIN, or, you will be lost, forever.
I dont want that, Jesus doesnt want that, your Mom doesnt want that.
I have considered carefully how I would answer you each time. Some days have passed this time because I wanted to be SURE you grasp this following point above all others so read and consider carefully this:
Unless you forsake all you are and have done, admit honestly your sin; your lieing, stealing, lusting, etc.; to Jesus, and utterly surrender to His will, you WILL enter Hell, forever, upon your death.
No amount of HOPING on your part will make it otherwise.
As sure as math is absolute and is not subject to your opinion so is there a Creator you will have to answer to.
And His name is Jesus, ofr all of creeation was made through Him, for Him and by Him.
My desire is that you repent now, humbling yourself, so you will not be shamed by God, forever regretting.
JESUS IS, and you must surrender Ruben. There is no other way.
Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Thank you, btw, for conversing with me. I hope I have caused you to consider carefully what you must do. Your eternal soul depends on what you will do with that knowledge.
Only Jesus Saves,
Patrick J. Burwell, OnlyJesusSaves.com
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Re: Re: Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 12/11/06 04:34:49 PM |
Age 44, NJ |
Ruben (not "Reuben" right? Sorry for misspelling your name),
Let's go back to the basic message of Christianity, which is what you want to know about: There is none good, all have sinned, everyone is selfish, no one considers others before themselves. That is what God, Yahweh, says. We have all violated the Ten Commandments. The only punishment for crimes against God is Hell.
The reasonableness of Hell can be understood in the fact that the object of the crime determines the severity of the punishment.
Lie to me, no big deal.
Lie to Mom and Dad, you get punished
Lie to a policeman or a judge, you may get jail or a fine.
Lie to Congress and thats considered treasonous.
Lie to God, the One who gave you life and the air to breathe and you deserve eternal Hell.
BUT THAT IS NOT GOD'S WILL FOR YOU!!!
I am very sorry to hear your mother has cancer. My step-dad died of throat cancer, singing praises to God. It's not the dieing, it's HOW you die. Will you face death fearless, as any Christian can, knowing you are forgiven and KEPT by God HIMSELF? Or will you face the Judgment seat of Jesus where there is only ONE sentence (Christians never have to go there. I can explain more why later if you wish).
But, the one who made you wants to rescue you so much he came to this earth, lived as a man, died horribly in your stead and raised himself from death to show the grave could not hold him. Jesus defeated death! So you can trust that relying upon him is always the best choice, even if you are slowly dieing of cancer.
Remember "entropy" in class? Cancer is one of the nasty results of the universal entropic decay which all mankind, all of creation, is experiencing. The Bible calls it The Fall.
Ruben Shade, God has an option for you if you will take it. You do not have to enter everlasting punishment for being consummately self-centered all your life, like we all are, but for God's delivering mercy some recieve.
Ruben, we have conversed publicly for a reason. You are TIRED of false claims and false promises of many professing Christianity. I UNDERSTAND THAT. That is why I can be patient with you. I too used anger to test others and their claims of peace and joy.
But when I found Gods people I found they could not be swayed, no matter WHAT I did, or how bitter I was. They taught me what Gods love REALLY is.
Ruben I have been through the ringer following Jesus, it's no cake walk. But the end is Peace and everlasting life. Dont let anyone tell you being a Christianity is sweetness and light. No way. Jesus promised persecutions and painful struggles to his followers. Just LOOK at what happened to his disciples!
So don't think you can fool God with pretension, you must be honest for he sees and knows all you are and will ever be or do. God knows every thought you have ever had. My friend, you must be BORN AGAIN or you will be lost, forever. I dont want that, Jesus doesnt want that, your Mom doesnt want that.
I have considered carefully how I would answer you each time. Some days have passed this time because I wanted to be SURE you grasp this point above all others so read and consider carefully the following:
Unless you forsake all you are and have done, admitted honestly your sin to Jesus you, and utterly surrender to His will, you WILL enter Hell, forever, upon your death. No amount of HOPING on your part will make it otherwise.
As sure as math is absolute and is not subject to your opinion so is there a Creator you will have to answer to.
My desire is that you do so now, humble yourself, so you will not be shamed by God, forever regretting.
JESUS IS, and you must surrender Ruben.
Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
How much more caring can a Creator be than allow his own son to rescue you?
Thank you, btw, for conversing with me. I hope I have caused you to consider carefully what you must do.
Patrick Burwell, OnlyJesusSaves.com
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ScienceBoy: 2, Sir/Madam: 0
| Posted On: 12/09/06 01:31:57 PM |
Age 20, UN |
Forgive my brashness but I am just frankly so fed up with trying to defend myself an Atheists from the exact same argument you propose on this website over and over again. I believe you should repsect other cultures and belief systems. As an Atheist I don't choose to believe in these things, I believe in hard evidence. These two points are mutually exclusive. Faith is defined as the belief in something when there is no evidence for it; as Atheists we hold evidence as the central core of our understanding. There is no faith involved whatsoever. Yet we don't start religious wars because of it. Why? Because even though from my perspective you believe in myths and fairy tails, I have no problem in you believing so... unless you're forcing it onto other people. Hope I've made sense :). Thank you - ScienceBoy
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Re: Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 12/05/06 12:26:04 AM |
Age 20, UN |
Again, thany you sir for your sincerity. To be quite frank sir, I don't believe in a lord and the Bible to me is a fairy tale. I have come to these conclusions with rational thought and life experience; my mum was the only Christian in my family and she's dying of cancer; it seems science is doing far more for her than prayer now. It bothers me that the Bible has so many heinous and troubling passages such as the endoresemnt of stoning for young women who claim to be virgins who actually aren't; it bothers me that the Lord or the bible does not denounce racism, sexism and slavery; it bothers me that by definition an almightly Lord can't exist (can he lift a rock that even He cannot' lift? Either way, he's not infallable!); and it bothers me that I see so many parallels with Chritsianity and every other religion in history. You should not worry for me, just as I shouldn't worry for you that your entire belief system is based on supersition, mythology and unproven claims. I know that because there is no afterlife, I have to live the life I have been given by my parents (not a God) to the full and with respect to my fellow people because I know that when I die, I won't be getting an Afterlife. If we could vote on whether we believe having a God and Heaven would be nice, I'd vote yes, but the question is, do I believe it? Unfortunately given the evidence saying otherwise that is mounting everyday and for the aformetioned fundamental troubles I have with religion, I don't think I will. For more information about how I see the world, you can see GodIsImaginary.com, WhyWontGodHealAmputees.com and the YouTube video at http://youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ. Thank you again sir, but you should not worry for me, otherwise I would by definition have to worry about you for the opposite reasons. Thank you - Ruben Schade (ScienceBoy)
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Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 12/04/06 07:06:06 AM |
Age 44, NJ |
I appreciate your reply Reuben. I hope you understand my concern for you and why I take the time to answer you so publically and candidly: I want to see you rescued.
You said "the reason why I should be Christian is that it is the only faith that promotes the idea that you should be a better person."
While an affect of surrendering to Jesus is that you become more compassionate and understanding of the failings of others: after all, "Who am I", right? but, that is not the reason to come to and submit to Jesus as Savior and Lord.
You must be rescued...
Let me explain:
Jesus said, "IAM the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but through me." - John 14:6
It is essential you understand this is the crux of the Christian faith and message.
Only Jesus Saves, Reuben.
May you take that test again at http://NeedGod.com and this time consider what the Creator of the Universe is saying to you, while you still have time (life is short and can end suddenly as you know).
Luke 13:3 "Unless you too repent you will likewise perish."
Your violations of the Law, when you steal, lie and lust, makes you, just like me, a liar, a thief and an adulterer. You have violated the Law and their is only one payment.
Consider carefully, Reuben, for your very eternal soul depends upon it...
http://NeedGod.com
I trust Yahweh will see you through, and may we meet in Glory.
Patrick Burwell, OnlyJesusSaves.com
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Re: Re: Re: Re: ScienceBoy: 2, Sir/Madam: 0
| Posted On: 12/03/06 05:08:30 AM |
Age 47, WV |
It's a little hard to follow the replies: this is directed at Scienceboy:
Scienceboy, you stated that religions should respect others beliefs and not try to force their own ideas on someone else (that's a paraphrase)
Isn't that what you're doing by saying that? You, yourself, are trying to force your idea that Christians shouldn't force our ideas, on the writer of this article!
Being an Atheist is an interesting position. That takes a great amount of faith...but thats another discussion for another day...
I pray that God decides to draw you to Him and you repent and trust in Jesus Christ for your salvation. I would be willing to be the author of this article does too.
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Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 12/01/06 04:36:36 AM |
Age 20, UN |
I've responded to your post below sir up here because we were running out of space :) Thank you for your feedback sir. I seem to have gathered that the reason why I should be Christian is that it is the only faith that promotes the idea that you should be a better person. While I agree that is truly noble, Buddhism says the same thing. Buddhism encourages you to improve yourself as a person, not so you can go to an afterlife but because it will make your life more valuable and meaningful. I attended a talk by Arjen Brahm, an Australian Monk from Perth who said that Christianity is based on the belief that a God's guiding path and judgement should help you, Buddhism is based on the belief that you should help yourself. In Buddhism, you don't strive to achieve Nirvana because it will make achieve peace with the Lord, you want to do it to be at peace with yourself. Buddhism doesn't subject every judgement to be done by a single entity, it stresses the power is in yourself, which I find more empowering and rewarding. As an Atheist as well I feel I am more accepted because Atheists and Buddhists have strikingly similar philosophies: don't believe anything until you have evidence, have faith in yourself not a God, and above all else: improve yourself as a person because you want to help your fellow human beings. I admire and respect your devotion to your beliefs sir, but I believe Buddhism is more compassionate and accepting, from my perspective. Thank you again for taking me seriously and for the in depth discussion, if every Christian were like you I'm sure the world would be a much better place. Thank you sir - Ruben Schade / ScienceBoy.
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Re: Re: Re: ScienceBoy: 2, Sir/Madam: 0
| Posted On: 11/30/06 05:06:47 PM |
Age 44, NJ |
"Scienceboy" (what is your first name?),
The sarcasm aside (don't worry I understand the frustration), I perceive the problem you have with Christianity is that it does not equate with other religions in it's acceptance of other faiths: it cannot.
Let me explain why...
Christianity, as compared to all religions, Christianity has one clear difference: works.
Christianity says you cannot ever be good enough. All religions, however, do. There is not one religion out that does not require some work, and some are so strenous as to be impossible. In this last regard we could, say Christianity is "like" those latter.
Why?
Because Jesus says, God says, there are TWO ways to "Heaven" ("Eternal Life" instead of "Eternal Death").
You must either:
1. Be Perfect as God is Perfect.
2. Repent of your violations of the Law and trust in Jesus to be your sacrifice; in His resurrection as enabling you to put to death the sins of your flesh from then on.
No one but God Himself could fulfill the requirements of the law so that leaves only the second option. Indeed, that is why the second option is available, for, Jesus did exactly that.
As you have taken the test you now understand that you have not fullilled the first option, as all of us cannot, so that is why you need the second option.
In Christ's own words, "Unless you repent you will perish."
Luke 13:3- http://onlyjesussaves.com/web/Luke.htm#C13V3
As to the veracity of Jesus, his exstence and even the proof, that is admissible as evidence in court, of His resurrection, read "An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice" by Simon Greenleaf.
Realize this though SB, no matter what you may believe, what is True remains. Just like Math, God is irrefutable. Even the Creation itself dclares His glory, when you humble yourself enough to hear...
Hoping you come to the Truth...
Patrick Burwell, OnlyJesusSaves.com
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Re: Re: Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 11/30/06 11:55:14 AM |
Age 20, MN |
Thank you so much for undermining people my age.I, and i am sure and my other 5 roommates, would not appreciate somebody that doesnt know who we are at al stereotype us. I would like to sit up with us till 2am talking about politics and the bible and economics and spiritual revival and then we will see how you feel about my generation after that. Some of us happen to know a thing or two, we are not entirely ignorant and stupid and irresponsible at the horrible age late teens and early 20's
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My test results are in!
| Posted On: 11/29/06 01:58:44 AM |
Age 20, UN |
I took your test sir on NeedGod.com. I answered the questions truthfully sir, then answered "Guilty" followed by "Going to Hell". The phrase "Does the fact that you're headed for Hell concern you?" appeared and I responded with "No". It claims that "Your disbelief in Hell will not cause it to cease to exist." Using the brilliant loophole that is in all religious circular logic sir, I was able to decode this to mean that "The writer of this test's belief in Hell will not cause it to exist". Have I learned anything? Yes, I know what Christians believe to be the reasons to go to the mythical place known as Hell and that I know that giving money to charity is worthless in your God's eyes. If your God doesn't appreciate my acts to help my fellow human beings sir, then I'm afraid your religion is not for me. I took a Buddhist test though sir and it said "Your compassion for other people and your belief in Buddha's teachings of respect and human dignity rates you well as a person. Your karma is well endowed." I guess all hope isn't lost then! I appreciate the interesting perspective. Thank you sir - ScienceBoy
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Re: Re: ScienceBoy: 2, Sir/Madam: 0
| Posted On: 11/29/06 01:42:54 AM |
Age 20, UN |
Thank you sir for responding to my post, I appreciate that you take me seriously. If Jesus did exist sir, he was a wonderful person. My mum is Christian sir and says she is because she appreciates the sacrifice Jesus made for us and how hard it must have been for a single person to preach love to people and get mocked for it. While I appreciate this sir, as an Atheist I see that all religions are the same. Every religion says their religion is right sir, every religion professes that a messenger from God (or Gods as the case may be) told them that God sent them and that every other religion is wrong. When someone says this though sir, the responses usually rage from "yeah, well my religion is different because of XYZ" or "I have evidence that mine is right and XYZ is wrong" which completely sidesteps the entire argument. I therefore sir don't have a problem with people practicing religion because I believe everyone has the right to their own beliefs, but by the same token I believe therefore it's the inherent responsibility of religious followers to respect other religious followers, even if their beliefs are different. When religious people start making a mockery of other people's beliefs sir, they are in effect looping back and mocking themselves, so at the end of the say there are many red faces and nobody has learned anything. I will take your test, but I will probably give it as much credit as you would give a secular test that I would give to you. Aha! Can you see it sir? Once you understand that difference sir, I think you'll be able to understand all of what I've said. Again, I appreciate you taking the time to post a response, I don't get much serious feedback from authors on this site, plus I love a lively debate :). Thank you sir - ScienceBoy
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Re: ScienceBoy: 2, Sir/Madam: 0
| Posted On: 11/28/06 12:31:13 PM |
Age 44, NJ |
From the Author of "The Blessing", Patrick Burwell...
In your reply you said to me,
"Oh you have got to be joking sir. Religion is religion, respect other people's beliefs and grow up sir, you sound like a sulky child who has lost an argument."
Considering the Ministry I have (http://OnlyJesusSaves.com), which is to declare the truth to the world that Only Jesus Saves, I find your comment puzzling. You do understand Jesus is not some good teacher or moral example to live by? You do realize Jesus himelf said He is the ONLY way to the Father, right? You do know that Jesus said of himself that he IS God by saying, "Before Abraham was IAM...", right?
You didn't? Well that is why the Hebrew Leaders tried to stone him then, the leaders of the False Religion of Judaism that denies Jesus as the Messiah that is, not those of Yahweh's Israel (consider what Paul says in "Hebrews" concerning who is of Israel and who is not).
Jesus also said that when they saw his face they actually saw the Father.
So, yes, Jesus did say those things. So you have a problem. Either Jesus is a lunatic, a liar, or He is who he says he is. But don't try to throw in with Him as being a good moral teacher. He is either God to you or He is not to be trusted.
That is what you have to decide. The Good Person test answers many questions on whether you need God or not: http://www.NeedGod.com
But what I am telling you is what Christianity says of all other religions: They are ALL false.
And what Christianity says of Jesus: Only Jesus Saves
Anything else is a lie. The President received a note from me by way of his wife Laura in the first year of his presidency. in that note I encouraged him and reminded him that Yahweh put him there, so he'd better remember to represent God in his term. He apparently has lost site of this mandate.
So, how did you do on the test?
http://www.NeedGod.com
Patrick Burwell
Evangelist@OnlyJesusSaves.com
http://OnlyJesusSaves.com
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ScienceBoy: 2, Sir/Madam: 0
| Posted On: 11/27/06 10:42:49 AM |
Age 20, UN |
I made perfectly legitimate points sir/madam. I asked why religious people can't just live in peaceful coexistance, and I asked why people who truly believe in virtue and faith convert people by practicing what they preach. If those comments are "just derision" then what are your responses? You have made no attempt *twice* to refute anything I've said, instead you have chosen to "deride" my age. I could have accused you of having many mental ilnesses that people in older age, but I didn't choose to sir/madam. Never mind, I'll talk to my grandfather on the phone back in Australia tomorrow who is a member of the AFA; if age is the only variable that determins intelligence as you say, then he must be even smarter than you. Cheers - ScienceBoy.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 11/26/06 07:26:18 PM |
Age 50, MN |
I haven't seen anything constructive from you. Just derision. Your profile says it all, you're young, not your fault, but you haven't learned yet how to think. You just spout nonsense and then expect others to bend to your " superior" intellect. Sorry, kiddo, not happening. When you grow up and truly want to dialogue, find an adult.
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Re: Re: Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 11/25/06 02:00:46 PM |
Age 20, UN |
I find it interesting on this website that virtually every point I make always gets responses ranging from "he's young", "he hasn't been taught well" and "that God will have his way" without ever actually trying to form a constructive argument against me: very disappointing. Enjoy your afterlife sir/madam. ScienceBoy from the World View Weekend Expos (http://ravingatheists.com/scienceboy/)
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Re: Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 11/24/06 04:57:37 PM |
Age 50, MN |
Oh, the ignorance of youth! Must be wonderful to be 20 years old and know everything. I hope you grow up and learn the truth about Jesus Christ before you die and learn the truth the hard way. Raving athiest, indeed.
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Re: The Blessing
| Posted On: 11/24/06 07:59:40 AM |
Age 20, UN |
"Islam is a lie; only Jesus saves." Oh you have got to be joking sir. Religion is religion, respect other people's beliefs and grow up sir, you sound like a sulky child who has lost an argument. Despite George W. Bush being an idiot at least he has been able to say one (yes one!) thing that hasn't ended up sounding stupid: "Islam is a great faith" as you said. This is called making friends, rebuilding bridges and patching relations instead of alienating people as you seem to like doing sir. When oh when will people wake up and realise that the best way to bring people to your cause is by being a living example of what you believe to be valuable (loving thy fellow person, being inclusive) and not simply preaching that other people are wrong and will burn in hell? Cheers - ScienceBoy from the World View Weekend Expos (http://ravingatheists.com/scienceboy/)
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