Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 09:54:00 PM |
Age 29, CO |
"context people, context" Would you please give me the context to your statement about worldview weekend's heart. I assume you did have context to this statement.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 09:40:17 PM |
Age 39, IN |
I found Bell's quotation to be very cavalier--like many of his interesting/unverifiable facts. Except I don't give any credence to a Yoga Master.
Even more interesting to me is the fact that the majority of the feedback against Bell's message is coming from people over forty. I wonder if they've ever seen anything like this before? Nah--who ever heard of history repeating itself?
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 08:51:30 PM |
Age 23, ME |
As a certified professional midwife in training it is often heard that we should recommend our clients use Yoga...I won't, but it certainly is everywhere. I noticed someone compare christians who refuse to do yoga, because they don't want to become followers of another god, to not eating italian food in order to not become italian. (Baking Soda)
Dave Hunt wrote a decent book called 'Yoga and the Body of Christ' I found it helpful and educational.
Besides typos and a couple wierd sentences I thought the article was fine.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 07:35:04 PM |
Age 54, NS |
Ken Silva has it right to warn us of the dangers of the "emerging church" movement. To attempt to join Christianity with other opposing worldviews into some syncretistic mixture is one of the oldest heresies of them all. Ken has written on the problems we are currently experiencing here in eastern Canada. See http://takebackcanada.com/emergingchurch.html for some more articles - including several by Ken Silva.
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Sad
| Posted On: 11/01/06 05:52:47 PM |
Age 33, OK |
This article was very sad. Why are Christians so afraid of everything?
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Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 04:59:50 PM |
Age 51, NH |
FYI, my observations are based on just abit more than one teaching. see:
http://www.apprising.org/archives/rob_bell/
index.html
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Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 04:48:55 PM |
Age 51, NH |
You did say: "I apoligize if that went over your head." O it's probably I that should apologize to you for even writing this piece. But that's ok, I've only been studying theology for 18 years so I'm sure I have some catching up to do to hang with one so erudite as youself, really. You also said calling Bell an Emergent is "ludicriss" (sic). Well then I'm in good company because Andy Crouch writing for Christianity Today begins their article "The Emergent Mystique" by describing his trip to MHBC to hear Rob Bell. Then the Bells point out that Emergent Guru Brian McLaren's book "A New Kind of Christian" opened their eyes. Bell even had McLaren speaking at MHBC last July. No my young friend, I am well aware that Bell doesn't claim to be part of the Emergent Church, and I sure don't blame him for not wanting to be considered part of this neo-liberal cult. But I'm afraid with Rob Bell it's a case of if it looks like Emergent and sounds like Emergent and is accepted as Emergent, well then it is Emergent. peace.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 03:07:50 PM |
Age 51, NM |
Here are two, of many, Bell quotes;
"It is not possible to simply do what the Bible says," Bell writes. "We must first make decisions about what it means at this time, in this place, for these people."
Bell says. "I affirm the truth anywhere in any religious system, in any worldview. If it's true, it belongs to God."
Please do not tell me that this man is not part of the emergent movement. This is exactly what these folks espouse; a contextual gospel.
When one goes to amazon.com to find info on his book "Velvet Elvis" There is a section that says:
Customers who bought this item also bought
Blue Like Jazz: Nonreligious Thoughts on Christian Spirituality by Donald Miller
Searching for God Knows What by Donald Miller
The Barbarian Way: Unleash the Untamed Faith Within by Erwin Raphael McManus
To Own a Dragon: Reflections On Growing Up Without A Father by Donald Miller
A New Kind of Christian: A Tale of Two Friends on a Spiritual Journey by Brian D. McLaren
He is emergent. Bell and others teach a neo-pelagian theology. Modern day evangelicals have fallen far from the Reformation and exhibit little of its effects.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 02:45:01 PM |
Age 20, MN |
This, my friends, is Journalism at its worst. *
From wikipedia, "Indeed for many practitioners today, Yoga is a purely physical exercise (akin to aerobics and pilates), and is taught without the rest of its philosophy." *
I don't see the problem with Yoga, as it applies to our culture. When someone in the US says "yoga," Theyre talking about the physical relaxation and breathing techniques. They are almost never talking about the Hundi Philosophy. *
Also, I though it might be helpful for you to know that Christianity doesn't have to be Western. The orthodox Church (eastern) and the catholic church (western) were the first two major branches of Christianity. Honestly, we could learn a lot from our eastern-minded Brothers in Christ.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 02:29:24 PM |
Age 40, MN |
I struggle to see the true objectivity in your article, Mr. Silva. First, I have not heard the message by Bell that you are commenting on, but I have read a lot of what he's written and heard his messages numerous times. I think you misunderstood him and perhaps should give him a chance to respond (Mt 18). I think we use discernment on everything we take in. That being said, I see Bell as someone who pushes us, causes us to think--and we desperately need that. My question is this--you give NO context for what he said. It sounds to me like he was using this as an illustration, similar to Paul's quote of the pagan philosopher in Acts 17; Paul showed us it is possible to use illustrations from pagans/unbelievers without implying that we agree with everything they write or believe--but to use it as a point of connection to the culture into which we are speaking. And our culture is into yoga. So, give us more context, please. Referring to a yoga master is no more heretical than Paul referring to the pagan philosopher--but many leaders today cry "foul" simply at the mention. That's severely unbalanced. "Foul!"
Second point would be this: the practice of vigilantly defending truth can become just as aberrant or out of balance as non-chalantly letting truth slide. What I mean is this: if all we're looking for is buzzwords (yoga, etc)--then we'll find what we're looking for every time. Defending can become something that we do motived out of fear; fear of losing truth, fear of losing God's favor, fear of losing our culture to relativism, etc. But once we give in to the primary motivation of FEAR, we lose something BIG--perfect love casts out all fear.
I perceive that kind of fear in a lot of worldview type of things and it troubles me--even though I am for teaching truth. Those seeking to communicate into the culture relevantly and creatively get labeled as liberal and heretical SO QUICKLY. Too quickly. Honestly, discussions about "seeker sensitive" methods and methods to be "relevant" seem to be about things that happened 25 years ago and are not about what people are really doing today nor about what both the heart and the philosophy behind a lot of ministry are really about TODAY.
Maybe instead of defending, we should seek to relate and find a way to challenge each other to a careful and concerned orthodoxy that is fresh and relevant and able to be understood by those to whom we speak--instead of bashing each other OUT OF CONTEXT? My $.02.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 11:43:22 AM |
Age 29, IN |
wow! where do i start? first of all, the title of your article is "Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and jesus". no problem there, except that it takes nearly the whole first page (5 paragraphs) for you to begin talking about that topic. instead you bash on Rob.
then, when you do address the topic, you give us 3 or 4 lines from a sermon and add emphasis where you feel it is appropriate. when i read the statement that Rob Bell made and then read your response, i had to re-read both several times trying to find the connection.
i was unable! here's why... you took what he said out of context! to make matters worse, you then write the 3 longest paragraphs of the entire article about things totally unrelated to what Rob Bell had to say, without using one scripture! and then you put words into the mouths of "followers of Bell" and take issue w/ what THEY said. rather, what you said that they would say!
now, we disagree w/ what Rob Bell said, but that isn't my biggest issue w/ your article. this is... you seem to take most offense to WHERE Rob gets his idea and not the actual idea. here's a question. isn't truth, truth no matter where it comes from?
if a pagan tribe from africa values human life and believes murder is wrong, as christians, do we disagree w/ them because they didn't learn that truth from a missionary?
therefore, isn't it possible that a yoga master, no matter how lost, could actually believe something true?
in closing, i challenge you. listen to Rob Bell's sermon again. only this time lay aside your 5 paragraphs+ worth of distain for him personally and listen to the words. you will find that he was using yoga as an analogy not a point of theology. your bold print was misplaced by your desire to be right.
on the other hand, if your goal in life is to point out bad analogies used in sermons, wow, you have a lot of work to do! i'll send you some of my tapes. i am at least as bad as most preachers, probably worse!
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 10:40:41 AM |
Age 45, IL |
Could it be that Rob Bell is only using Yoga as an illustration? This example of using another religion's practices or teachings in order to point to the one true God is not without biblical precedence, (see Acts 17:22-31),hence the name and vision of Rob's church Mars Hill.
Be at peace, brother, Rob Bell is not the enemy.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 10:27:00 AM |
Age 52, WI |
You've offered a pretty weak arguement if your goal was to defend your belief that Rob Bell is a heretic. Strong accusations demand strong defense. At this point in time I am not convinced. I have heard the man speak a few times and it seemed clear to me that he owns a strong sense of Biblical authority, a strong embrace of orthodox Christian teaching, an unusual passion and gift for teaching in regards to church history and a love for the Gospel of Christ. To call a man a heretic because he uses Yoga as a teaching illustration is quite a stretch. Perhaps you could attack his sense of discernment - but his standing before God? Heresy is a designation God's people should use with great care.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 09:31:42 AM |
Age 28, NE |
That's the most heretical statement you could find by Rob Bell? If that's it, than I don't really understand what you are up-in-arms about, because if I'm reading the quote correctly (maybe I'm wrong) all he's saying is this:
In Yoga, the most important thing is the breathing. If your breathing is consistent your other actions will fall in line. That's how it is in the Christian life. If you keep your relationship with God consistent, the daily personal relationship with Him, maintain a 24/7 relationship with Him, (abide in Him) then you won't have to worry about whether your actions are pleasing to Him, because they will be, because He will be there right alongside you, keeping your actions consistent with your faith.
What is heretical about that?
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 09:25:58 AM |
Age 58, WV |
Yoga is spreading rapidly. Just look at all of the commercials that feature it. Currently, I am fighting a local school district that is promoting Yoga for teachers to use in their classrooms.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 09:09:57 AM |
Age 32, MS |
Greetings,
I am a Student Minister, and glad to say that I have purchased and shown every video that Bell has produced. I think the problem many people have with Bell and many other "Emergent Leaders" is that they don't make hell their focus. I think hell is a real place I believe there will be people who go there, however I don't believe in the preaching of fire insurance! I think a lot of times we have kids who are terrified into believing in Jesus because they don't want to go to this scarry place that a preacher has just told them about. They put their faith and trust into a decision they made when they were five, and are never discipled into a true relationship and walk with Jesus Christ. They don't see it being truly lived out in their homes, so at college age they decide this is not real, all I see are lies...and we wind up with a 75% drop out rate in college students. Many people would say that it's because while they were in student ministry they were entertained too much, but I believe it is because we have finally come to a point where people are truly wanting to see Christianity lived out! Don't tell me you're a Christian show me! Are we truly showing it? In our Churches? How many lost people do you know around you? What are you doing to reach them? What kind of influence are we truly being?
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 08:59:26 AM |
Age 42, TN |
Excellent article! Eastern sorcery practices are now invading the Christian church at an alarming rate.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 08:53:08 AM |
Age 41, GA |
As a follow up to this article, I would suggest you take 40 minutes to listen to this teaching by Vodi Baucham. He speaks of what is happening not only in the Emerging Church, but as well the unbiblical and antithetical approach that many Christian churches have taken when it comes to reaching a lost generation; that of our youth.
http://www.familylife.com/fltoday/default.asp?id=8819&search=1&showType=FamilyLife+Today&guests=&strMonth=10&strDay=&strYear=2006&keywords=&image1.x=33&image1.y=13
Just click on the real player or media player icon. Listen to both days.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 08:40:54 AM |
Age 51, ND |
Ken could not have been more on the money here. My sister who claims to be a Christian is taken into this satan inspired yoga junk. Satan has certainly got a bunch of people following him in this effort to turn them away from the one true God and Jesus, the only saving way to heaven. It truly is a sad thing. William Bennett wrote "The death of outrage", but I would submit that the true death is that of discernment. Oh how near the end we truly are. Daily you can see and hear of all the prophosy being fulfilled right in front of us. Thanks Ken for your observant heart.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/01/06 08:40:43 AM |
Age 50, OH |
I must agree with Ken Silva's comments regarding Rob Bell. I personally have listened to this sermon and Ken has represented Bell correctly regarding the yoga comments. These comments give a person cause to pause. The insertion of these comments in his message was extremely strange at best and went without explanation to a christian community. Since many of Bell's messages and videos contain many metaphors and figures of speech, it was extremely difficult to determine if this was a metaphorical use or just heretical teaching.
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