Re: Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 01:44:31 PM |
Age 39, NC |
It's easy to look at fault in others. What we need to do is start being about the Father's business...not attacking our brothers and sisters who may have a difference of opinion in some areas. Let's not major in the minors : ) If we can agree on the major issues (Jesus is the only way to salvation, the Bible is God's inerrant Word),then let's unite and reach the lost. I think satan is having a field day, watching fellow Christians bash one another.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 12:16:21 PM |
Age 15, MN |
I completely agree with this article. I am studying Hinduism and Buddhism in History right now. I was amazed at the spiritual significance of the "exercise" yoga. I thought; why is it acceptable to have yoga in American society today? why isnt anyone speaking out against it? I dont think anyone should accept yoga as part of an exercise. it is a religious belief, and whether intended or not, to participate is to agree with the beliefs behind it. I dont believe that it is acceptable or God honoring for Christians especially to participate in exercises associtaed with a false religion.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 09:01:47 AM |
Age 20, MN |
Well, I am not going to get mad. I am not going to yell and I am not going to give non-christians the view that all we bigots do is yell at each other, becuase I hate when we Christians can't be critical with a loving heart. I disagree with almost everything in the article. I have been listening to every one of Rob Bell's sermon's for the past 3 years. I have watched every Nooma video. I have seen the majority of his teachings to youth pastors and the like. I can not see what you see. I have been radically changed by his teaching while still staunchley apposing the emergent church. He catches the very core of what Jesus teaching is about, love. I think we miss that sometimes. That Jesus is all about love. Now I know exactly what people are going to do with this. Well what about, "White Washed Tombs", what about, "brood of vipers", well what about, "he is a fox." True, Jesus had harsh words at times, but why? So they could come to a right relationship with God because they were so far off. He loved them enough that he would tell them the truth. Out of curiosity. What was the context of that excerpt you took? I hope it wasn't out of context.
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Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 08:05:55 AM |
Age 51, NH |
I don't teach salvation by works. Repentance is not a work. Sorry, but you're wrong.
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Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/03/06 03:12:43 AM |
Age 42, KY |
I am sorry my young friend, but you are wrong. YHVH Himself, warns of turning to traditions of men. Do you think so little of the Lord you, supposedly serve as to believe that His word needs the help of pagan rituals and practices to reach those He has called. All parts of Yoga are related, and you can't seperate the "exercise" from the spiritual aspects of it (though the world wants you to believe you can). And let us clear this little misunderstanding up as well: You, nor I, nor Brother Silva, nor Mr. Bell can 'call' or 'Save' anyone, for Yeshua Himself tells us that only the Father can 'call' or 'draw' a person to the Christ, and only Yeshua the Messiah, can offer salvation to them. Our only jobs as messianic gentiles and/or messianic Jews, is to study and learn His Word and to teach the Word and witness about His great works and miracles, and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit takes care of the rest! No where in the scriptures, will you find the Lord telling us to go out and 'Call' or 'Save' souls!!! Hopefully, with a lot more study of His Word, and a whole lot more revolations concerning the Scriptures, you will see the blatant errors in your own reasoning and chastisement of Brother Silva.
God Bless you and enlighten you!
Mark
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 09:15:46 PM |
Age 29, MO |
It's amazing how you can have two polar opposites. One teaching all you need is love and the other teaching salvation by works and Lordship. huh...sorry both guys are wrong
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Re: It saddens me, too.
| Posted On: 11/02/06 08:25:32 PM |
Age 51, NH |
"give a link to the rest of the sermon" I did right within the piece itself. Under the subheading Yoga Masters And The Repainted Christian Faith all one needs to do is click on the blue word breathing for the hyperlink. Maybe while you're so busy looking for flaws in my research you'd be better served to pay closer attention to what you critcize. I know I do. :-)
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 08:13:04 PM |
Age 39, IN |
"[In Yoga] it’s not how flexible you are, it’s not whether you can do the poses, it’s not how much you can bend yourself, it’s can you keep your breath [breathes in and out] consistent [breathes out] through whatever you are doing."
"And the Yoga Masters say this is how it is when you follow Jesus and surrender to God. Is it’s your breath being consistent. It’s your connection with God regardless of the pose you find yourself in. That’s integrating the divine into the daily."
The mp3 link can be found on the Team Pyro blog.
As I understand, Yoga originated in the Hindu religion. Every contemporary "Yoga Master" is something other than Christian. Why then would Bell say the Yoga Masters talk about how it is when you follow Jesus and surrender to God? How would they know?
Or did Bell reveal his ignorance when he suggested that the "Yoga Masters" know the way of Jesus?
Of course, Bell could think that there is not much difference between Christianity, Hinduism and Buddism. Maybe all three are "the way of Jesus."
Perhaps a brother that has shown Rev. Silva some love can
lovingly ask Rob Bell what he was trying to say?
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 03:17:19 PM |
Age 17, IN |
Your representation of Rob Bells picture of Jesus as the ultimate Yoga Master seems to me to be quite inaccurate and closed-minded. (Before you tune me out, at least read what I have to say. I had the courtesy to read your article, now consider the reading of this as a return-favor.) Bell is referring to Yoga in its role as exercise (though I realize that you probably believe that this role and its role in eastern religion are homogeneous or indistinguishable). However, the fact that he is not even referring to the religious practice is beside the point. If he was referring to it in its religious context, he would simply be using a demonstration or illustration from another religion. His idea of breathing consistently with Christ is not by any means suggesting that ones breath connects them with God. (This is what your declaration that all of creation would consequently have union with God implies.) If you would open your eyes, it would be obvious that he is simply attempting to show how consistently pursuing Gods best for your life is what matters. It isnt about the legalistic nature of Christians who take on roles as modern Pharisees in making sure that they are not breaking any rules by assigning twice as many rules as are listed in scripture and in the principles of Christs ministry.
People who seek to stir up trouble amongst believers (*ahem*i.e. you) are missing the point. There is a lost and dying world out there who knows how to connect with humans through conversations and life. We as Christians have been forgiven through Christ and are the connection between him and the world. (I am telling you this, because you seem to have forgotten.) Excuse me if Bells example from an eastern faith offended you. Luckily, he doesnt care if he offended you! He wants the millions of people in his audience who have been approached by eastern faiths and trapped in their lies to see that the God after whom they are innately searching can only be reached through the forgiveness and repentance of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
As it seems you have forgotten, Christians are in the business of reaching people. Christians are in the business of connecting with God. Christians are in the business of connecting people with God. God is bigger than Yoga. He is not fooled! If the Gods worshipped by Yoga are false, then why can this form of exercise or slow-motion dancing or thinking not be used for the glory of the one true God? I would love to hear your reply, sir.
Also, dont ever use the number of years you have been studying theology as an argument point. It is entirely distasteful and causes you to sound like a self-absorbed and condescending person. There are persons who have studied the scripture for one tenth as long as you have who have twelve times as much insight as I have seen here. Don't rely on your gifts or education; rely on God's revelation.
Good day!
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Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 03:07:45 PM |
Age 51, WA |
Perhaps people are flocking to the Emerging Churches (EC) because the way is indeed broad, relatively easy, and the road quite populated with others with whom to have a "conversation". I sense though, that when they meet the Jesus of the Scriptures, they will find that He might well turn the growing EC crowds away (cf Matthew 25) because they traveled the well-worn broad way and missed entirely that narrow, and difficult way that the fundamentalists kept pointing to.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 03:07:25 PM |
Age 17, IN |
Can I get an, 'Amen!'?
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 01:58:58 PM |
Age 51, NM |
One tires of hearing Paul's use of the Greek poets in Acts 17 (which has become the prime, and only, argument for "culturally relevant" evangelism).
Paul never condoned the theology of the poets and/or their practices. What he did tell them was that the poets had the right description of the wrong god, i.e. Zeus. Remember Paul began his discourse by saying that he was going to tell them, the Stoics, of the "unknown god" that they had built an altar to. You may also note that of all the evangelistic efforts in the book of Acts, this was the least successful.
My advice to the younger commenters here is to quit regurgitating emergent dogma, and read your Bibles along with a good history of the church.
The main problem with Bell is that he is neo-pelagian in his theology. God "connects" with us. We do not, and cannot connect with God. Bell's usage of yoga as a "sermon illustration" is confusing in its presentation to the more immature believers. It appears as if he is condoning its use, much like the promotion of the labyrinth,contemplative prayer etc.
The baseball analogy does not hold water as no one would construe it as a "religious/spiritual disipline which is what yoga is. The only way to the Father is through the Son, not through other religions. God help the "tolerant ones".
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 12:03:38 PM |
Age 48, CO |
gee Ken S., do you think your mentor Walter Martin would approve of a pastor using the topic of baseball in a sermon illustration? Maybe you could 'research' all his teaching tapes/materials and emphatically conclude, "I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Dr. Martin would say that there is no such thing as Christian baseball!"
Oh, but baseball isn't a religious worldly practice like yoga is, you might respond. Oooh, got me there, Ken. Unless, of course, you ignore most of your buddies in here who liken most ANY activity (outside of sitting one's fanny in a church pew on sunday morn or in a BS led by a church-approved conservative seminarian) as a near automatic 'worldly' activity.
Me thinks seekers of truth are flocking to the Emergent church crowd today because at least there they can enter into dialogue, find common ground, use reason and logic, feel safe while airing differences and asking challenging questions, and NOT hear the shrill cries of men running around in chicken suits clucking that their sky is falling.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 09:52:22 AM |
Age 34, FL |
Wow! How compelling! It is interesting to me that the author of this article assumed that the readers would deem his sweeping generalizations about Rob Bell or the Emerging Movement at large as credible based on his extensive research. Interesting because most readers won't assume that even the author's extensive research would have been steered and interpreted through his lens or predisposition. It is also sketchy to me that the one example of concern came from a random mp3 - absent of the courtesy of context. There are hundreds of statements that I have made while preaching or teaching that hijacked out of their context would sound extremely heretic or questionable. Has Silva, amid his extensive research, loved Rob Bell enough to actually engage him personally about his concerns? Lastly, it is not uncommon, and certainly not heretical, to borrow analogies or metaphors from other religions or practices (which are counterfeits) to point to rhe authentic truth of Christian practices or beliefs. The idea of our walking in daily, ongoing communion with God is very much like the counterfeit practice of yoga. I commend Rob for trying to find the best, most compelling analogies to encourage GOd's people to "Practice the Presence of God".
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Re: It saddens me, too.
| Posted On: 11/02/06 09:01:30 AM |
Age 16, TN |
I agree.
Even out of context, this simply seemed a metaphor to me.
If Rob Bell was teaching some scriptural point and saw a connection in it to some Yoga philosophy, why not point it out? It isn't commending yoga as true, but is merely pointing out a truth we may agree on which could be a bridge to the gospel. In Athens, the apostle Paul began his discussion by quoting their own philosophers and poets...
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Re: ...i disagree...
| Posted On: 11/02/06 08:51:36 AM |
Age 41, OH |
That was an excellent suggestion about going to Mars Hill's own web site to see what they believe!
However, instead of confirming your statement that they are "fundamentalist", it proves exactly the opposite.
I found their wording to be extremely "emergent" (calling Scripture the "authoritative narrative", calling us to "commune with creation", emphasizing relationship without personal repentance, sin being spoken of as if we are victims of it, ...).
They make the statement, "Through Jesus we have been forgiven". This statement is universal in nature without a call to personal repentance. We are not forgiven without repenting of our sin.
Thanks again for pointing us to their own words which prove they have rejected the true Gospel for a New Age counterfeit!
Richard
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Re: Re: Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 08:47:57 AM |
Age 45, IL |
Wouldn't it be great if God helped you to use your 18 years of theological training to actually serve his people, rather than "straining gnats" for them?
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Are you kidding me??
| Posted On: 11/02/06 08:40:54 AM |
Age 35, MD |
Please tell me you are not serious! From your post, it appears that we have moved past judging books by their cover (and title, and who endorsed them on the back cover...) to making Amazon.com judge and arbiter of what is "emergent" and whose theology is unorthodox. This takes guilt by association to new levels.
As other posters have correctly pointed out, in his eagerness to prosecute his witch hunt, Ken Silva has completely missed or ignored the point and meaning of what Rob said. His article makes for catchy headlines, but is pathetic in its attempts to support his point. So much for postmoderns having a lock on subjective truth.
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Re: The Emerging Church, Rob Bell, Yoga Masters and Jesus?
| Posted On: 11/02/06 07:36:40 AM |
Age 44, VI |
I've been a Christian for just over 2 years, directly from practicing and teaching Yoga. If Yoga was being used figguratively as someone else suggested, Rob Bell should have made sure he understood the issues well enough to make sure he was not in turn misunderstood.
I have used the same lessons in teaching Yoga to beginners in meditation. The problem with Yoga in its safest and purest form is that it delys on one doing something in order to 'connect' with or become one with God. What it fails to teach is the Gospel truth, that it is through grace alone that we are saved, and all else will be judged with the Law.
The fact remains that there is nothing we can or should do in order to 'connect with God', or to save ourselves. Only through faith in Christ Jesus are we saved by grace. If we want to hear God speak to us, we only have to obey the Holy Spirit. Just as Abram called upon the Lord after leaving his fathers house and was not answered, yet he was answered in the moment that Abram obeyed all the instructions God had given him. Read Genesis 12 & 13, and watch for when Abram calls upon the Lord, and when the Lord actually answers Abram.
Stephen
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It saddens me, too.
| Posted On: 11/02/06 12:15:40 AM |
Age 18, CA |
I really do think that those who have attacked Rob Bell based on the quote that Silva gave us need to come back to college and take some classes on metaphorical speech. I also believe it is safe to assume that due to lack of context for Bell's quote, it was taken out of context. If it wasn't, prove it. Show the context. Mr. Silva, I understand that you are busy trying to defend the orthodoxy of Christianity (I am a Reformed Presbyterian and in Berkeley find myself surrounded by all kinds of false attacks on the gospel), but if you could take time to give a link to the rest of the sermon for those of us who are truly trying to analyze the claims of Christianity vs. the claims of Rob Bell, that would be great. I think also that if you have been truthful and accurate in your assessment of Bell, it would do nothing but bolster your case to give us the context in which you found that quote.
So please, let's not assume that someone is heretical simply because he makes an analogy to poplar culture. I fear that is the problem here. I also am very sad that, when I looked at your site, Mr. Silva, there were nearly no quality points that show Bell to be as heretical as you claim, yet there were many ad hominem attacks on the man. This is not loving our brothers in Christ, nor is it uplifting to those who read it. If you have evidence of neo-orthodoxy and emergent tendencies coming from Bell, please, share it. I want to find truth, not hot air.
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