Re: Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 11/01/06 09:17:46 AM |
Age 28, TX |
Ah, well, I went to a school where they spanked and the wooden paddle was routinely broken (literally!) over the rear end of some poor student who decided to stand up for what they believed in (and sometimes they were right!)
When my great grandmother was in school the teacher wacked the children on the heads with a ruler. Her twin sister died the day after such discipline for talking in class. The autopsy showed severe trauma to the brain.
When my father was in school his teachers hit them repeatedly on the knuckles and open palms, such that they could not use their hands for the rest of the day and then received punishment for not getting their work done because they could no longer write.
I do not believe that schools should spank children. I believe that the parent should be called and if the parent believes the child should be spanked, the parents can do that at home.
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Re: Re: Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/25/06 03:45:02 PM |
Age 35, IL |
So, "my experience" (which you presume my comments are based on) is so flawed that I "don't know what I'm talking about", but your experience is so powerful that it allows you to know what you're talking about? How do you arrive at that conclusion? You simply assert that I'm wrong, then give anecdotes about poorly-behaved children (who you assert aren't spanked--without any evidence, or without any time spent positing other causes for their behavior) and that's supposed to count as "knowing what you're talking about"? The worst behaved students in my classrooms were the ones who were spanked (not the ones who weren't) because they believed that one didn't need to listen until violence was threatened or involved. There...my experience trumps yours.
My point was that the kids who were spanked were spanked because their parents found it easier to resort to violence than to address the causes of the bad behavior (prsuming that hitting would put a stop to the bad behavior). My argument is that if we address the causes of misbehavior then the need to spank doesn't arise.
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Re: Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/25/06 10:28:42 AM |
Age 53, SC |
I totally agree with your rationale - that the pre-supposition that a famous CEO would be necessarily be a Godly role model is false. While in the eyes of the world , CEO would be an admirable goal, the objective in Christian parenting is to raise Godly men and women whether they are CEO's, garbage collectors, etc. Whether it is accomplished through corporal punishment or not largely depends upon the child. Just as some of us require correction from the Lord in a "woodshed" experience, others need only His watchful eye to keep us on track and so are our children, too. I am not opposed to corporal punishment but I am opposed to glorifying CEO's as objectives when discussing Biblical parenting.
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/22/06 07:03:48 PM |
Age 30, IN |
(Oops - previous post got posted too early). I wanted to echo a theme touched on by 46 FL. The article presupposes that CEOs are in some sense moral exemplars, people to be looked up to, emulated, etc. Why in the world should Christians think such a thing? One might think that the fact that spanking tends to inculcate character traits found in CEOs is a very good reason to AVOID spanking if at all possible. Since when do Christians wish to raise children whose character resembles that of the average CEO?
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/22/06 06:59:21 PM |
Age 30, IN |
I wanted to echo a theme 46 FL raised. The article presupposes that CEOs are exemplars to be looked up to, emulated, pursued. Why in the world should Christians think that? It is very difficult to see why we shouldn't conclude that spanking is to be AVOIDED precisely because
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/20/06 05:41:51 PM |
Age 54, FL |
Amen! It couldn't be said any better. I am a teacher & I see the daily effects of spare the rod & spoil the child. That is part of the reason schools are in such bad shape!Get prayer back in too!
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 06:40:27 PM |
Age 46, FL |
I agree that at times children will only listen to a spanking. But when I was growing up that method of discipline was WAY overused. I used to get the spit beat out of me on a pretty regular basis with a belt. At times the buckle tagged my skin. And it wasnt always the belt, other times it was a "switch". Sometimes that switch had thorns on it. Mixed with that was very little "I love you, son". I think I heard that about 10 times in my entire childhood. I was left marked up a few times and have a scar to show for it still. To make a good soup you need a balance of ingredients. To make a good son you need balance - communication, love, encouragement, acceptance, discipline. The past generations were about beating the clap out of their children because they had little patience for any misbehavior. So rather than talk, they spanked. No, wait a minute, let me correct that...it was not spank...it was WHIP and BEAT. As far as Im concerned this idea has been overemphasized for decades. If you want to take about a REAL solution then lets talk about BALANCE in what children NEED. Communication, encouragement, love, acceptance, discipline.
As for the CEOs, how are they true examples of success? Many of them are not exactly models of humanity. How many scandals have they been involved with? And many are overpaid money-mongers with both eyes fixed firmly on their steadily fattening bank accounts.
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Re: Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 05:47:28 PM |
Age 42, KY |
Respectfully, I don't believe you know what you are talking about. I have seen too many childern that are not spanked, and by the age of 6, pay no more attention to what their parents are saying than a man in the moon. And you can watch them at restaurants, supermarkets, parks or where ever, and you can pick the ones that are not spanked out, within 5 to 10 seconds of seeing them, as they are the ones making everyone around them miserable!!! As they say, "Talk is cheap!", and it seldom accomplishes a lasting solution to the problem, especially when a child's behavior is involved. Granted there as exceptions to the rule, and one child out of 100 (and I am being generous here), can be talked to. There are also a very small percentage of children that respond to alternate punishments, like being sent to their room or having certain privileges taken away. But by in large, when spankings are properly administered, they have very good results. But as to what I have witnessed,those who are never spanked, make of the majority of the children endup with discipline and social problems. As others have properly pointed, the effectiveness of a spanking depends on the parents and their attitude in delivering them. Done viciously or saddistically, they will only multiply the social/behavioral problems they claim to be correcting.
Isn't it funny how when it became illegal to spank a child in public or paddle them at school, it wasn't long til school shooting began?! When I was in elementary school, if I got a paddling at school, I got a spanking from my dad when I got home. I tried to avoid getting a paddling at school. When your children get a firm talking to at school, do you think they really dread what is going to happen when they get home, when you don't spank them? I doubt it. But then again, maybe you children that fall into that 1% that don't need to be spanked, if so, you are more lucky than you know.
If only folks stop imposing their messed up ideas on everyone else. If you don't want to spank your child(ren), that should be up to the parent, not to congress, judges or social workers, telling everyone else they can't either. I am not advocating beating anyone, but I know from first hand experience a good spanking, which isn't the same as 'beating' a child, goes a long way to making a child think twice before disobeying his/her parents and/or teachers!
Mark
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 05:33:26 PM |
Age 52, PA |
As a father of 7 boys and one girl and haveing visited my granddads woodshed I strongly agree with this article.No I don't believe it should be applied without love but there is a place for it. I am a truck driver and see a large cross section of our nation and one thing I find gravely missing today is respect for elders,authority,life in general. So much at an early age too when it should be taught. Just for me to address an adult by thier first name would have brought my fathers wrath down upon me.Yet my one son who attends public school is allowed to address his teacher in such a manner against our wishes. I can't imagine even thinking about killing someone when i was younger much less do it. I'm not sure where we are headed but I fear it may take more now to turn it around than a trip to the woodshed, although it might be the place to start.
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 02:47:13 PM |
Age 40, CA |
But one should not forget the most important part of the process...yes, the rod is important, but DO bring God's Word into it! It is sharper than any two edged sword, and neccessary to put godly substance in the whole reason for the rod- to save their souls from hell...A terrific book on raising children using Scripture is by Lou Priolo- "Teach Them Diligently". Get it- and one on anger is "The Heart of Anger" by the same author.
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 10:59:22 AM |
Age 49, AR |
Respecrfully, I take the age of Rev. Creech into account when reading this article. I have raised 3 children who are all young adults, strongly committed to Jesus Christ and serving Him on foreign fields and at home. I save spanking as a VERY LAST and RARE RESORT. I believe there are so many wonderful Christians now (see Ross Campbell M.D.) offering Godly wisdom for discipline in parenting. There are many ways to teach and guide and discipline children under the authority of Christ and spanking is not at the ttop of the list in my opinion. Thank You, Gena Carter Mother of Three, Early Childhood and Elementary Education Teacher
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 10:03:30 AM |
Age 18, NY |
I completely agree with this article!! It is entirely true... I teach sunday school and the problem children--the ones who dont respect authority, who are disturbing and just pure trouble are those who do not get disciplined by their parents. The worst part is that when you inform the parents of the child's behaviour you get one of two answers: either they blame it on you for being a 'bad teacher' or they smile, ignore and promptly allow the child to play. And this is in CHURCH. imagine how the outside world must be. My mother raised my brothers and I to be obedient, well mannered and well behaved...as much as it hurt as a child, I am grateful she spanked me.
Lets pray so the government can stop interfering with the parent's God-given right to discipline their children and also that God protect those children who are not disciplined but rather abused...I understand the government for their attempt at protection but in the long run it is the vast population of kids who suffer...
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 09:41:14 AM |
Age 35, IL |
If you're doing all those other things you recommend in conjunction with spanking, spanking shouldn't be necessary. Violence represents a breakdown in your ability to effectively handle the situation. I'm sure that people will respond to this post saying that I'm advocating "coddling", but why does it become coddling if you remove the hitting? If the kid has fists clenched and head down, lift his head up and show him that there are better ways of resolving conflicts than with his (or your) fists.
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 09:09:08 AM |
Age 30, OH |
Amen! As foster parents, we see both sides of the argument in living examples. There are children who have been made into stress-relievers by selfish parents, and then there are children who are completely lost because they have never been given any direction. We have adopted 4 of our foster placements so far, and one child had a REAL problem with lying, sneaking out, and stealing. Because foster children are not legally ours and there is a chance they may go home, the rules do not permit any kind of physical discipline. Once the adoption was final, however, we had to decide how to handle the child who had become officially ours. And while the fear of being in violation of some possible rule about spanking even adopted children worried us, we had to decide to fear God more than man. A course of what we felt was Biblical punishment (spanking along with explaining and pointing out the Biblical references to the crimes) had some bearing, but we noticed the behaviors continue. When another shoplifting occurred, we decided it was prudent for a more memorable discipline and employed the old "woodshed" approach. But more than a sore bottom, this child had an eye-opening to how his behavior would not be tolerated. We continued to be diligent in training him in the word. His heart began to soften and this spring, at the age of 9, he accepted Christ and has since been diligent in the call of Christians. The fear of leaving that red mark on his bottom for a few days was also resolved when we read Proverbs 20:30 again. We do not believe in beating up a child, but we also do not believe a painful correction is abuse. It would be far worse to stand in the judgment of God for not training a child than to stand in judgment of Social Services for not sparing the rod. It is also more prudent to train a CHILD in the way he should go, because once he is an adult, change will be harder.
PS- Many countries still employ corporal punishment, and not surprisingly, their crime rates are DRASTICALLY lower.
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 06:12:50 AM |
Age 47, FL |
As the father of seven children, I am a firm believer in spankings; lovingly, deliberately, and consistantly applied. It is also true that if you spank them early in their childhood, BEFORE they are big enough to require a "rod", actually USING a rod in later spankings becomes far less frequent. In fact, I only did it once, but I did it to all six at one time to send a message. They got it loud and clear, and that particular infraction was NEVER committed again, by any of them.
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 03:36:03 AM |
Age 42, KY |
The lack of morality in the youth of today, college age and younger, I truly feel can traced for the most part to 2 things: 1st and foremost the removal of the 10 commandments from the school buildings and the banning of prayer at school and school events, and the 2nd and almost a major a part is the absence of paddlings at school and spankings at home. We have far too many liberals running around trying to say that spanking and beating your children are one in the same, and that just isn't true, and never has been. I thank YHVH that I grew up in a time, when if I got out of line at home or at school, I got a spanking. In fact, in my neighborhood, if any children got out of line or did something really wrong, any of the parents in the neighborhood had the right and did, once and a while did spank children that were not their own (but usually included their children as well). It was explained to us, that the neighbors had the right to spank us if we were bad. I think everone I grew up with, turned out to be pretty descent folks, who respect their dads and moms, as well as the folks that live around us. Young people, including many young adults, and children have no concept of the consequences for evil that they do or for breaking the law, as they have never been spanked and thus have no personal life references as to what it means to face the consequences of their actions. Naturally these children and young adults, are very surprised when they do something that actually lands them in jail, as obeying or facing punishment, as never been demonstrated to them before.
And those verses about spanking weren't speaking figuratively, but literally. When we mess up and sin, YHVH will chasten us, not because He is sitting up in heaven pulling the wings off flies waiting for us to mess up so he can lower the boom on us, but rather, to bring us back onto the path of righteousness. He loves us enough to punish us for our transgressions, so that we don't do it again.
Anyway, a good spanking, done in the right way, never hurt anyone, but it should helped a lot of children think twice before getting out of hand again. Not because of the pain, but because of the shame, I hated to be spanked in the supermarket as a child, and it only happened one time... and I truly needed. But I never back-talked my mother in the grocery again!
If you love your children, spank them and explain to them why you did, and they will respect and love you for it, when they grow up!
JMHO
Mark
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Re: Visiting An 'Old-fashioned Woodshed'
| Posted On: 10/19/06 01:40:02 AM |
Age 40, IN |
Though none of us believed our parents when they told us it was hurting them more than it would hurt us, time and experience proves the validity of the statement and the effectiveness of the rod properly and lovingly administered. Start early enough and you don't even have to deal with a rebellious teen attempting to sow proverbial wild oats. By the way... my parents raised three preachers. A good spanking never hurt me more than it helped me!
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