Re: Re: Re: Rape and Murder Consistent With Christianity?
| Posted On: 03/24/07 07:56:00 PM |
Age 28, MD |
Also, please notice the qualifiers here:
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which ARE IN Christ Jesus, who WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, but after the Spirit."
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Re: Re: Re: Rape and Murder Consistent With Christianity?
| Posted On: 03/23/07 06:20:56 PM |
Age 28, MD |
No, but the father says that his son was dead and is alive *again*. He was not physically dead, so that only leaves spiritually...
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Re: Re: Re: Rape and Murder Consistent With Christianity?
| Posted On: 03/23/07 05:20:15 PM |
Age 28, MD |
You said: "Your argument says that by believing in eternal security one must be a murderer, a rapist, a thief; in short: "totally depraved." It is not that they *must* be, rather that they *can* be. I don't believe that that idea is a Biblical one. You also said: "Answer this question: When one is born again what sins are forgiven them? Past, present or future?" Why not let the Apostle Peter answer it? "But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins."-2 Pt. 1:9 "Let God be true and everyman a liar." Amen!
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Re: Re: Re: Yes! Let's look past the rhetoric of the Site you linked!
| Posted On: 03/23/07 04:53:35 PM |
Age 28, MD |
If you want to point someone in the right direction you will point them to the Holy Scriptures themselves:)
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Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/23/07 04:43:52 PM |
Age 28, MD |
Is this original, or where did it come from?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/23/07 04:11:19 PM |
Age 28, MD |
I believe that God is sovereign, so much so that He is able to give His creation free will (even past the point of initial salvation) and still be in control. Was He in control in the garden of Eden? Yes! Did His sovereignty force Adam and Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit? No! Did God want them to eat the forbidden fruit? No! Otherwise He wouldn't have made it forbidden. And just like the garden, today believers who are walking in faith and fellowship with God can be tempted and choose to believe a lie rather than Christ. Will God force a believer to remain in fellowship with Him? Did He force Adam and Eve?
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Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/23/07 03:55:51 PM |
Age 28, MD |
What of those who "fall away" completely and totally and never return, then? Do they remain saved or not?
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/23/07 03:41:27 PM |
Age 28, MD |
Would you agree that if once saved always saved is true, that the opposite of it is not true? Since both cannot be true, than one of the two is false. What a person believes about this doctrine influences every other aspect of their faith and how they live their lives, as well as how they interpret and teach the Bible to others. That would then mean that either you are or your friends are a false teacher...doesn't that concern you? It should!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/21/07 09:53:57 PM |
Age 28, MD |
Brenda,
Jesus told us it would be evident to us, those who are saved and those who are not.
""Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"-Mt.7:15-23
To me, this is yet another scripture that points to God's view of obedience in the lives of believers.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/21/07 09:34:05 PM |
Age 28, MD |
I am so glad that you have this attitude. But I am thoroughly concerned about those who are taught once saved always saved and *do* live their lives with that knowledge as giving them a license to sin. There are those that do use osas as an excuse...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/21/07 09:14:37 PM |
Age 28, MD |
You wrote:
"And YOU say that we can sin all we want, worship the devil, rape and murder, and there are no repercussions!" Show me where an OSAS'er has said this and I will lead the charge in rebuking them.
Have you ever heard of Dr. Charles Stanley? In his online Bible Study (as well as in his book which the title of escapes me at the moment) he teaches that one can be a "carnal" christian. He teaches that if after you believe and place your faith in Christ, you can then die an unrepentent sinner-the vilest sins you can think of, and still be saved. Hope to see you in the forums sometime soon! (I think they are re-vamping the study soon though, so as of I believe May 1, 2007, the site will be down. Don't know how long...but still, hope to see you there soon, leading that charge!)
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/21/07 09:00:17 PM |
Age 28, MD |
The prodigal son was dead (notice it wasn't physically dead...that only leaves spiritually) and alive AGAIN. If it isn't possible for God to quit being our father, then how were we born again in the first place? Before we become a child of God, we are a child of the devil. Yet we can become 'unborn' so to speak of the devil. The spiritual realm is not limited to how things work in the physical...
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Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/21/07 08:47:59 PM |
Age 28, MD |
What one believes concerning this doctrine effects every other facet of faith. They are diametrically opposed, so that both cannot be true. Would you like to hear this be said of what you've taught someone?:
'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME,TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'-Mk.7:7
Rather, this is what we are to be doing:
"But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine."-Titus 2:1
It is *so* important to understand what scripture is saying, and if we don't understand it, humble yourself enough before God to admit that to Him and He *will* help you understand. Maybe not overnight, but He is faithful.
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Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/21/07 08:04:32 PM |
Age 28, MD |
Very well said!
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/21/07 07:54:08 PM |
Age 28, MD |
If you take the calvinistic spin out of the way, the same can be said of arminianism...
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/21/07 07:41:53 PM |
Age 28, MD |
To quote you,
"Look to the Scriptures not man."
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 03/21/07 07:38:07 PM |
Age 28, MD |
Do you know what the definition of disciple is? Also, When Jesus says "any man", that is all-inclusive...that means the disciples, you, me, ANY MAN (which in this case means person, and not just those who are male).
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Re: Re: Basic Truth
| Posted On: 03/21/07 07:30:51 PM |
Age 28, MD |
Matthew Henry is not the authority, Jesus Christ is through the word that he has given us in scripture. Jesus said, and his meaning is clear in this passage. If you-a disciple of Christ, IN Christ-don't bear fruit, you'll be cut off by the Father. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that?
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Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 11/14/06 04:36:43 AM |
Age 44, UK |
Im not saying we should be silent, I just think we can employ our time and gifts to more profitable use for the extension of the Lords Kingdom. This debate has been raging for hundreds of years and like the pre trib/mid trib/post trib argument, its one of those things on which Christians will quote the Bible at each other and not agree! Personally, I dont believe in eternal security, while I have friends who do! Were getting on with glorifying Jesus and reaching out to lost people. Selah!
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Re: Re: Re: Once Saved Always Saved (Part 3)
| Posted On: 11/14/06 04:24:29 AM |
Age 44, UK |
With respect, you need to read again WHAT I said: That it wasnt worth people actually (not nearly) coming to blows over the Calvinism v Armenianism debate. You say that, A believer would be wise to decide what the Bible teaches on the subject. The fact is, that great teachers and theologians have taken different positions on this debate through hundreds of years of church history. Today, growing churches have different positions on this area of doctrine. Believers HAVE TRIED to be wise and have come to totally different conclusions! I continue to preach Christ Crucified, but I wont give any more of my time to a debate which has been ongoing for hundreds of years.
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