Re: Re: The ?Bait and Switch? Gospel
| Posted On: 09/17/06 07:50:10 PM |
Age 44, NJ |
From the author:
This is from the good person test on my site located at http://OnlyJesusSaves.com/good that describes Hell as not only eternal but the fire of Hell as unquenchable:
The Bible Describes Hell
There are three words translated “Hell” in Scripture:
Gehenna (Greek): The place of punishment (Matthew 5:22,29; 10:28; and James 3:6)
Hades (Greek): The abode of the dead (Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 16:23; Acts 2:27)
Sheol (Hebrew): The grave (Psalm 9:17; 16:10)
There are those who accept that Hell is a place of punishment, but believe that the punishment is to be annihilated—to cease conscious existence. They can’t conceive that the punishment of the wicked will be conscious and eternal. If they are correct, then a man like Adolph Hitler, who was responsible for the deaths of millions, is being “punished” merely with eternal sleep. His fate is simply to return to the non-existent state he was in before he was born, where he doesn’t even know that he is being punished.
However, Scripture paints a different story. The rich man who found himself in Hell (Luke 16:19-31) was conscious. He was able to feel pain, to thirst, and to experience remorse. He wasn’t asleep in the grave; he was in a place of “torment.” If Hell is a place of knowing nothing or a reference to the grave into which we go at death, Jesus’ statements about Hell make no sense. He said that if your hand, foot, or eye causes you to sin, it would be better to remove it than to “go into Hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:43-48).
The Bible refers to the fate of the unsaved with such fearful words as the following:
“Shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2)
“Everlasting punishment” (Matthew 25:46)
“Weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 24:51)
“Fire unquenchable” (Luke 3:17)
“Indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish” (Romans 2:8,9)
“Everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord” (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
“Eternal fire...the blackness of darkness for ever” (Jude 7,13)
Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner: “He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone...the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night."
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Re: The Bait and Switch Gospel
| Posted On: 09/16/06 08:58:43 AM |
Age 54, FL |
Please, please can't someone go to Acts 2:38 and just simply "obey the gospel" and yes, that includes BAPTISM which you all have tried to sweep under the rug for years! Baptism is for the remission of sins and that's when you receive the Holy Spirit. Read the book of Acts without bias, see what they listened to and what they DID (which tells you what they heard) and please, let's just get back to the Word. Of course, being good enough is not the key. Actually, and here's where I'll really get you, a place of eternal hell is not scriptural either. The only ones promised eternal life are Christians. That means no consciousness for eternity is hell. The words "destruction" and "destroy" mean just that. You will have weeping and gnashing of teeth and there will be a lake of fire and burning but no eternal consciousness. You will be GONE. FINISHED. YOU ARE SPIRITUALLY AND PHYSICALLY DEAD AND GOD IS GONE TO YOU. Now, doesn't that just make you feel a sense of things making sense with a loving God??? Sure it does. And it's true. Many in America are starting to see this. The eternal hell thing started as part of mythology and ended up in the Catholic church and has been a makin' money every since. Don't be fooled. It's bad, yes, but God has no purpose in torturing people eternally. And that is not His nature, THANK GOD!
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God doesn't use the Bait and Switch Method
| Posted On: 09/15/06 04:35:12 AM |
Age 40, FL |
Here's a great quote from a show I recorded from SkyAngel. As John F MacArthur Jr said, "God doesn't use the bait and switch method, where He first draws a man, by appealing to his flesh, and then suddenly switches to appeal to his spirit. Listen to what is said in 1Cor 1:18-24.(Scripture quotation)... But, do you know what price is being paid when the goal even subtly shifts from being concerned with Gods Glory, and being Biblical, to being more concerned with being entertaining and relatable? Churches, pastors and their congregations as a consequence end up losing their holiness, as well. They lose their perspective of God, their Just and Holy God, a God Who Is to be revered and obeyed. When we start to cater to what people want or respond to, mans wants and needs become king, and things like Gods Glory, Holiness, and reverence for God become secondary. Word Pictures: Does Truth Matter Any More? www.CrossTV.com
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Re: The Bait and Switch Gospel
| Posted On: 09/14/06 10:23:34 AM |
Age 40, FL |
Thanks Patrick for another well thought out article. Most churches, if they grow at all, are winning false-converts to their churches. Unfortunately, a very low percentage of "christians" know what, why, or where in the Bible is the foundation for what they believe. Even fewer are discipled, and are planting Seeds and winning souls for the Kingdom. The problem was and still is, that we have turned the church into the place to bring people to hear the Gospel message, rather than telling them the Truth ourselves. The church has turned from a place to equip the saints for service beyond the church's doors to a place to meet and hear some Bible principles to help us in our day to day lives of worldliness, hoping to win more to our cause. But, praise God, there still are those who are reaching and seeking the lost with the Gospel message outside of the church, and there are those Pastors who preach the Truth about Sin, Hell, Salvation, Holiness, and Righteousness to their congregations.
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Re: Re: The Bait and Switch Gospel
| Posted On: 09/14/06 10:06:41 AM |
Age 40, FL |
You hit the nail on the head. Sounds like we need to go into the world, beyond our church doors, into that missions field, and actually spread the Gospel among the lost, regardless of the cost.
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Re: The ?Bait and Switch? Gospel
| Posted On: 09/13/06 08:44:15 PM |
Age 54, NZ |
With all propositions in this life, there is a logical order in which they must be apprehended. "Good news! There has been victory at Bannockburn!" has no meaning to someone who did not even know there was a war. So it is with the Gospel; it is not so much a matter of balance as it is of insisting that there are certain necessary truths which must be recieved in logical order, thus: 1) You are a sinner who can by no means redeem yourself. Now what point would there be in prattling about God's love if the sinner rejects the reality and consequences of their own guilt? Only when our lost condition is felt and known does the second fact, that God has provided a Saviour who is The Lord Jesus Christ, become relevant. And so, by God's grace at work in the sinner's heart, we are able to progress to how God will save the believing sinner on the basis of Christ's finished work alone. But until the first fact is received, one is dealing with an unrepentant sinner, who may well say he/she wants to go to Heaven, and will pray any little pray you tell them to pray, but who still loves their sin and hates their Maker. Our role as evangelists is to be used of the Holy Spirit as He sovereignly moves (Jn.3:8), not to produce adherants by any means.
- Tumbleweed
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Re: The Bait and Switch Gospel
| Posted On: 09/13/06 11:20:15 AM |
Age 61, CO |
(continued)
It is not for me to say which individuals have and which have not rejected sound teaching, God only judges the hearts of men. But,I, by God's Grace and power, will continue speaking to those within the church. I will speak out against false teaching, lies and heresy; and I will shout out the love of God which is found Only in Christ Jesus, Saviour AND Lord. And by His Power I choose to obey His command to go out into the world. I need not go to darkest Africa or the barrios of the cities in Peru ... my little corner of the world is where He has placed me (for now anyway) and my little corner of the world has great need. Yours too. Every door in every church should have a sign ON THE INSIDE where you will read upon exiting, THE MISSION FIELD STARTS HERE.
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Re: The Bait and Switch Gospel
| Posted On: 09/13/06 11:19:09 AM |
Age 61, CO |
Thank you for this insightful article ...
It is not just the "if I do enough good I'll go to heaven", and it is not just the misuse of the "once saved, always saved" teaching (which phrase I despise ... because we ARE saved for eternity ... when we are truly saved) .... and it is not just the fact that we are living in the days of "ear tickling, turning away from sound doctrine" ... it is a combination of these factors plus the predominance of pastors who will not make a stand against the lies, and, therefore, FOR the One Truth of the Gospel.
The seeker friendly, purpose driven is tolerated, even embraced .. very few speak out against it; the Word/Faith heresy is not condemned (after all we must not judge and must not "touch god's anointed"); the feel-good-tickle-my-fancy gospel is embraced because "God is love and light" while those believing these (and other lies) which come to them from the pulpit (silence implies endorsement dontcha-know) take these same lies to others; the false teachings of the cults and the aberrant are not exposed! There are so many people sitting in the pews who do not know Mormonism is a cult, Jehovah's Witnesses are cultists, Dominionism is cultic (or aberrant anyway), who do not know that some of their favorite teachers teach the lie of prosperity, the lie that God must do that which we "agree" upon; don't know that the "signs and wonders" of which they are so proud (gold fillings?? gold teeth??) are LYING signs and wonders. Why do they not know???
Often, these days, people come into the churches for the wrong reasons (for coffee and doughnuts and really good music ... and to feel good) and then (the majority) leave when and if the Truth ever reaches them: The Truth that they must repent of their sin, give up their sinful life and live for Christ, acknowledging Him and only Him as the Way to be restored to relationship with God. We do not trust the work of the Holy Spirit, instead we devise plans and programs which we trust to fill our churches.
If we, as His children, think (as we are often told) all that is only necessary is to get them into the church where they will hear the pastor speak, then, we, too are falling for the lie. We are to "go out into the world", tell them the Truth, teach them about God's Salvation, rejoice with them when they commit their lives to Him ... and, then, bring them into the church to continue being taught Truth which is found only within the pages of the Word of God. The church is for Believers!
However, it is not just the silence of the pastors (the tolerance of heresy, the embracing of cults, etc) which seem to be robbing God of His family members. There are fine pastors who do speak God's Truth ... while the listeners stuff worldly wax into their ears ... these may never be reached. Obviously we are told in the Word that the time will come (which beginning is upon us now) when people will turn away from sound doctrine (the majority!), that the apostasy is to come. The issue, then is ... Choice, free will. Each human being will choose. The Bible says in Rev 22:11, "Let the unrighteous go on in unrighteousness; let the filthy go on being made filthy; ...". These know and choose to turn their backs on God. Not all will embrace the Saviour.
We, as those who claim to Love; as those who claim to be the Army of God, are commanded to go out into the world and find those whom The Most High has called. The work, through the power of the Holy Spirit, is up to the workers in the field. There are still people out there who have never really heard. Why are we not fulfilling this command? If we, God's People, say we love, yet are afraid of mere men (who have not the power to destroy the soul) and remain silent .... Whom do we thus serve???
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Re: The ?Bait and Switch? Gospel
| Posted On: 09/13/06 10:52:09 AM |
Age 55, KS |
This situation sets a field ripe for harvest for Islam, sadly. Islam teaches the "theory of compensation" which says that if you have 51% good deeds your odds of going to heaven are much better, though when someone goes to hell they can't complain because Islam also teaches that even if you are 99% good deeds God might send you to hell just to prove his sovereignty. They also fit U.S. culture by minimizing the horridness of sin, sin being more due to forgetfulness than deliberate love of evil. God is deemed more an oriental master than a righteous judge because if he was the latter we would need a Savior because all have sinned and then they would lose easily to Christianity and the doctrine of atonement (versus their theory of compensation). Thus, a majority of Americans already believe the essential doctrines of Islam, faith in works, denial of the critical role of the Holy Spirit in each believer's life, devaluation of the Bible, disagreement with the concept of original sin, trusting in the flesh, including killing those who don't agree with you, etc. If we don't teach the truth, in part, we will be to blame if a counterfeit makes major inroads in the USA.
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Re: The Bait and Switch Gospel
| Posted On: 09/13/06 08:11:06 AM |
Age 68, SC |
My ministry has always been primarily with middle school teenagers. It is a clear calling of God for me. I began in 1960 and will continue it, the Lord willing, until He calls me home.
In my first 10 years or so I was caught up in legalism. In those days the Word of God was preached so as to make it amply clear that the individual must pursue holiness and demonstrate obedience to God more than anything else.
The preachers held the Word of God very high and called it our standard, which it must be.
After God lead me out of the legalism and into the light I noticed that we had lost a number of those very strong fire and brimstone preachers, and had new men who preached a personal intimacy with God and less about the Holiness of God.
As I see it, we must continue holding high the Holiness of God - perhaps in the methods of "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" and by no means forget the teaching that God has always wanted a personal relationship with his creations.
I appreciate the difficulty for anyone to be a great teacher who emphasizes the need of the believer to have an intimate relationship with God. That is a great part of my ministry with teenagers.
It is a very different kind of ministry to preach the holiness of an Almighty God that sinners will see that they need salvation by grace.
Whether or not both kinds of preaching/teaching can be done by one man or not I do not know. But we must continue to hold high the Great Goodness and High Holiness of the God we serve. This is the standard to which we must keep so that our hearts are burning with the urgent desire to see the lost sinner come to Christ, salvation, and a life of growing in grace.
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