Re: Sounds like you're frustrated.
| Posted On: 09/15/06 02:26:58 PM |
Age 57, VA |
If you call it being in agreement, I sure would hate to be in a disagreement with him. This is not fun. I am out of here.
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Sounds like you're frustrated.
| Posted On: 09/14/06 12:39:21 PM |
Age 30, VA |
Boy, aren't we nice, when people ask for information. You really showed him, didn't you. You're one of those, if you don't know, I'm not telling you type of people and it's bad because I say it is people. All this person wanted was some facts or Scriptures. Please quit assuming and worrying about peoples background/motives when they ask for information. I think he's not against you, or Todd, based upon his feedback. It's late, bring the religious cows home already!
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Clearing the Air #2
| Posted On: 09/13/06 11:22:48 PM |
Age 22, FL |
To say if its not in the Word, dont do it, is ridiculous without instruction or explaining the instruction/ admonition/ doctrine from the Bible that says to stay away/avoid or dont do something. Its like saying I should never stare at the moon and think of and maybe even talk to God (Jesus), because that's not in the Bible and It's a strange experience, not taught in the Bible. Thats plain and simple religion, saying that if its not in the Word avoid it, without Biblical instruction or noting the doctrine/teaching it violates. With that said, the articles and linked articles from lighthousetrailsresearch show a definite connection with what the soaking prayer movement people are doing and with several of the eastern religious experiences/teachings, as well as a tie to the methods if not directly to the soaking prayer movement. I think the best article for avoiding this movement is the one entitled TORONTO BLESSING: CHRISTIAN-BASED MAGIC? by Kent Philpott which spells out authoritatively some of the challenges and errors with the original Toronto movement, which is still being encouraged in this new thing TACF is doing (that's a fact). Thanks for your input. Hopefully in the future, (I still have to work on it myself based upon what Ive learned today) we all will be able to put into words the Biblical admonition and why, factually, to avoid this movement, and its errors, before we encounter more people who ask about it, as I did, or are caught up in this tangled mess of false-teaching.
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Clearing the Air #1
| Posted On: 09/13/06 11:18:42 PM |
Age 22, FL |
Karen, inspite of what you apparently, wrongfully believe, I've just been looking for the truth, not trying to change you or even show you're wrong but just trying to get more out of you/the author than it's bad and it's a reincarnation of false-revival X or false teaching Y. I just wanted someone to explain what's the evil/false-teaching connection with this soaking thing, establish the facts not just opinions/innuendo, and maybe even show from the Scriptures where it's wrong. It seems nobody has. All I've heard factually from the feedback and the article sofar is that fruit is how to determine if some movement is "real" or true to God's Word, beyond obviously their Biblical teaching, right on or not. I know the rodney brown/laughter thing was and is false teaching and was/is simple audience manipulation by a Bible speaker/minister. I've read where these movements/revivals from the 90s have crossed paths and have had some similar "manefestations." I've never heard of this soaking prayer movement thing before this article, and frankly the article and feebacks doesn't give enough information for a person, who's not a false-teaching exposing junkie, to make an informed, logical, and especially Biblical stance one way or another. <more>
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Re: Re: Where's the Biblical and doctrinal facts?
| Posted On: 09/13/06 05:43:17 PM |
Age 57, VA |
Hey, what took you so long? I knew you would not be able to say "no" and let "sleeping dogs lie." You followed the trail and the cows are not home yet, so I should have expected you to show up! Let me guess. You have more of a heart to lead people out of deception than we do so you keep nagging us to prove what we believe because (in your words from the Soaking Article #2 by Todd) you said and I quote, I want to reach these people when I encounter them. That's why I keep asking.... to reach the lost and the deceived. The interesting thing is that you do not believe a word we say, yet you make no attempt to lead us away from the deception you think we are in, which only proves that you are not really interested in helping those who you think may be deceived but rather you just like to argue. Since you think we are deceived and you care as much as you say, I would expect that you would spend some of your written words trying to lead us on the "right path!" However you are doing as poor a job, if not poorer, of reaching those you believe to be deceived, those who you say you so badly want to help, as you accuse us of. Excuse me while I go get my fly swatter! I have a feeling we are in for another annoying "nag-arama."
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Re: Where's the Biblical and doctrinal facts?
| Posted On: 09/13/06 02:40:59 PM |
Age 44, TX |
If "soaking" (laying around in meditation, open to strange experiences) is not in the Word of God, WHAT OTHER PROOF DO WE NEED THAT IS IT TO BE AVOIDED??
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Re: Where's the Biblical and doctrinal facts?
| Posted On: 09/13/06 10:40:30 AM |
Age 40, FL |
If you Google "soaking prayer" you'll find several articles for it and contemplative prayer, transendental meditation, and you'll find several articles describing this soaking stuff, specifically. Check out http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/soakingprayer.htm and the article by Roger Harper linked from that page. Thanks. Scott
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Soaking PrayerAnd it's connection to Contemplative, Reiki and the Occult
| Posted On: 09/13/06 10:34:57 AM |
Age 40, FL |
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/soakingprayer.htm This website has lots of research beyond just soaking. There is a link to an article on Christianitymagazine's website that has a comprehensive article about "soaking". ALERT It must be noted that Christianitymagazine.co.uk embraces the post-modern church culture, Greg Boyd in particular, so scrutinize the article with this in mind. They do make a good arguement for steering clear of this "movement." Thanks. Scott
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Re: Re: Soaking: Part 3
| Posted On: 09/13/06 09:44:49 AM |
Age 45, MT |
You hit the nail on the head. The Pastor or Leader makes the congregation. No one is allowed to question him or be a Berean. I was in a church that the pastor turned Charismatic. The whole bit. Not only where all these supernatural things welcomes so everyone could feel and experience. It became the measure of your spirituality and bragging points. It became the only thing. Preaching the gospel became getting the new person to expereince the supernatural.That was success. So the nickels, noses, and numbers was added to experiencing the supernatural = success, and we must be right because we are growing. "A healthy church is one that is growing." That may or may not be true. A healthy church could also be one that has shrunk because it didn't allow false doctrine and people became offended and left. I've expereinced both. Anyway, the pastor makes the church and it's doctrine, and people even start copying him and acting like him.
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Re: Where's the Biblical and doctrinal facts?
| Posted On: 09/13/06 09:33:46 AM |
Age 22, FL |
There are three websites condemning this "soaking" thing. Todd's(article/website) and two others. None of the three establish what they(the soaking people/church) are teaching, in context, that are in error, Biblically. They emphasize parts of statements by people of this movement, and basically say, "See, I told you so!" "This proves my point." "Here's an example of established false teaching... now go and read it into this quote." Still DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TEACHING/DOING THAT CAN BE SHOWN TO BE WRONG, BIBLICALLY? Nobody wants to address this CRITICAL ISSUE. The websites don't cover this. I don't have their materials. Can someone who has some of their "soaking" materials, or has been to a "soaking" meeting, or witnessed a "soaking" meeting video comment? Can anyone defend this judgement/condemnation without hiding behind "spiritual" discernment?
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Where's the Biblical and doctrinal facts?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 03:50:54 PM |
Age 30, VA |
3 Days later. No response...Can someone say what these people in this soaking movement are teaching that's in error or even what they are teaching that's not? Does anybody actually know, or are we just circular reasoning from websites referencing websites, that they're kinda, maybe, sorta like, these other, implied false, teachings? Are they teaching waiting on the Lord? Are they teaching laughter, and animal noises? Are they teaching submission to Him? Are they teaching worship and meditating on the Word? I have read a lot of condemnation in the article and in the feedbacks/webpages referenced, without any Biblical references, or quotes of error (in context). Several have noted this, as well. Many of the opinions against this "movement" sound like an ad hominem argument. Are you telling me there's not material enough to prove the points? Where's the Biblical and doctrinal facts for or against this "movement?" What's up? Thanks, Aubrey
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Re: Soaking: Part 3
| Posted On: 09/12/06 12:31:44 PM |
Age 52, NY |
Tom:
While I heartilly agree with your concerns over this new movement, it is important to consider before you paint the American church as fat and lazy, that congregations in the United States are getting "soaked" regularly by a clergy quick to employ marketing techniques and conscious of their need to gain attention and keep revenue coming in. Even the letter to the Laodiceans is addressed first to the "angel" or messenger to that fellowship. The pastor of a fellowship sets the standard and the sheep will, eventually, follow. Pastors who tend toward experience over doctrine and success over character are the main reason the churches are suffering from immaturity and deception. While the people may want it so, (and what immature child doesn't?)righteous pastors will stand up to their sheep and to the "clouds without rain" (RE: the alledged soaking")false shepherds. Many of the movements that side track Christians today are attempts by men to craft a unique message and draw people to themself. The crisis in Christianity is not precipatated by the immaturity of the sheep, but by the complacency of the leadership. Many pastors have settled for the benefits of a good lifestyle and success over the risks that comes with delivering Christ's message to His fellowship. Instead of having birthpangs until Christ is formed in the individuals in their charge, their passive discipleship of the sheep results in immature and vunerable believers that are easilly moved by every wind of doctrine.
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Suggestion
| Posted On: 09/12/06 09:09:01 AM |
Age 40, FL |
The article in it's entirety on the website raises several red flags about this soaking movement. I'd suggest, in the future, rewriting/formatting the parts of your articles to where they are supportive and not interdependent. When you read part 3 by itself, for example, you really have no idea of the topic, without looking back on the mainpage of CVW and going down about a page to find the previous installments. Thanks. Scott
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Re: Soaking: Part 3
| Posted On: 09/11/06 10:44:16 AM |
Age 41, TN |
Funny, there's no mention of "soaking" or the "soaking movement" in this installment.
Also, to use your own standard, the preaching of the Gospel, being a fruit, is exibited by this movement. Look at their website, and check out the missions links. Where, specifically, biblically is this movement in error?
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