Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/17/06 12:24:56 AM |
Age 46, NC |
you are misstating what is being said - he is specifically talking about pagan RELIGIOUS practices that some are trying to make ok by calling them Christian. God specifically tells us to AVOID the religions of pagans lest we start worshipping their gods.
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Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/17/06 12:20:01 AM |
Age 46, NC |
the same is true of how we celebrate Christmas and Easter. these are pagan practices that were brought into the Christian religion by the catholic church (if ya can't beat em, join em mentality). don't believe me? read what Jeremiah 10:3-5 says and think what the times of a shepherd are. also, do you REALLY think a shepherd would have his sheep in a field in the middle of winter? why? there isn't any food out in the field in winter. no instead that shepherd would have his sheep kept in a barn (manger) and would be tending them there. but december 25th coincides with the winter solstice, a decidedly pagan festival and celebration. still think Christmas isn't pagan? read your bible and tell me where exactly they mention celebrating the Lord's birth. i haven't found it yet.
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Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/16/06 08:50:27 PM |
Age 63, FL |
One of the commands to Christians from Jesus is to, ". . . . Avoid even the appearance of evil. . . ." Yes, it means very much to God, to Jesus, to me, and to every born-again Christian. Ouija boards provide a means to seeing the future, a fortune teller, an enemy of God. Christians and Jews are commanded by God Himself to avoid fortune tellers for they are all agents of Satan, doing his bidding.
In Jesus Name.
Gyrine3
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Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/15/06 03:12:59 PM |
Age 58, OH |
This article is very accurate. It disturbs me to read respondants who say "I think" this or that. Is it not what GOD thinks that matters? He opposes pagandom because they are worshipping false Gods. The 10 commandments tell us He is a jealous God. There is no room to share with any other god. In fact, worshipping other gods is worshipping demons in disguise.
However, not as I think, but as it is, there are many practices today with pagan origins(Demon worship) that "Christians" excuse for varying reasons.
Jesus was clear when he said "A little leaven ferments the whole lump". So how little "leaven" are we going to allow in our lives? I don't think - I KNOW what Jesus meant.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/13/06 11:18:50 PM |
Age 42, KY |
I appreciate your clarification, but I still think you have a few things askew. I don't believe your "faith evolves" but rather you behavior evolves. When we accept Yeshua as Messiah and the risen Son of YHWH through which our salvation was granted, our old sinful nature is crucified on the cross with Yeshua, and thus we are a New Creation, with a staintly nature, justified and sanctified by the Christ. However our behavior so use to the old sinful nature, that it take a while and YHWH to ever get it straightened out, or rather in better order, as our behavior while we are here on earth never reaches perfection.
As for trying to seperate the spiritual side of yogi or other such practices from the physical side, well it is kinda like trying to seperate your behavior from your old sinful nature, it is only achieved with the Christ working through you, whom has the Father working through Him. I really think you are on one of those, "Slippery Slopes", as you get Satan a toe hold via the physical part, for you say the exercise part isn't bad, but it gets folks used to having a pagan ritual in their life... even if the ritual is meaningless to them... it is still part of the pagan religion. And it gets you used to having the pagan stuff in your life. Next Satan conviences the person, that not only is the physical part not bad, but hey... that mediatation things seems to help the hindus reach a higher plain of fulfillment, so I bet that would be useful in getting closer to YHWH and Yeshua! Next that chanting things looks like it would really please YHWH, so then you start chanting, and before long you forget the Bible and the Word and start spending more and more time studying how to become "enlightened" by the various rituals and practices of Hindusm, and slowly but surely, you have less and less time for the Word and the study of it! That is where the danger lies. Sin and Satan's lies and misleadings, almost always 'creep' in and never kick the door in. The arguement you use, is the same arguement piligamist and the emergent church uses to try and snow unsuspecting Christians into accepting those corrupt pracatices as well. I am sorry brother, but unless you can cite scripture to back up your position, I have to believe you are still dangerously wrong, and you could very well lead a great no. of folks down the wrong path, with such endorsements of pagan rites and rituals.
YHWH bless us all with discernment and wisdom in all our endevours!
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Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/13/06 12:06:27 PM |
Age 26, TX |
This article makes that classic mistake of assuming something is pagan because pagans do it and/or started it.
That is just foolish. Pagans invented cars, but we still use them. Some pagans even worship their cars but we still use them.
It is very difficult for me to believe this author doesn't think it is possible to do physical yoga stretches as an exercise without dabbling in Hinduism.
The statement he makes, "to practice Yoga, but only for its exercise value, is basically an absurd notion to the very people who developed and brought Hindu Yoga to the West."
Ok, that may be true, but it's irrelevant. Who cares if practicing Yoga for its exercise value would be an absurd notion to the people who developed it? I can't figure out how their opinion of it has anything to do with God's absolute standard of right and wrong behavior.
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Re: Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/13/06 10:23:15 AM |
Age 59, KS |
I'm sure sorry for any misunderstanding here, especially from the person from Ky.
My statement was that one shouldn't stray from Christ which by default means the bible.
To accept Christ into your hearts will transform you in ways that can't be described. One of the things that happens is you become more sure of your faith. Thus, you can listen to what the other 80% of the world who aren't Christian's
are saying. Some of it just may fit into what Christ (through the apostles) were saying too.
What I probably should have said is that our faith should evolve, not that the word does. Thousands of theologins have a hard time agreeing on everything in the bible as do average folks. Thats why we have to listen to God. Remember, the early Christians didn't have a bible.
MY POINT was that if you are strong in your faith, Yogo exercises shouldn't have any negative effect. I'm not speaking from experience so I may just be wrong.
Didn't some guy get beheaded by good religious folks for saying the Earth revolves around the Sun? God is the father and we're all brothers and sisters. Brothers and sisters see things differently all the time but we have a common denominator... We just need to open our hearts and minds to His Love and to share that with each other.
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Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/13/06 01:42:11 AM |
Age 23, WA |
I agree that we need to be cautious of things in our society that at first glance may appear to be "of the light".
On the other hand, as Christians, we are to be in the world not of it. I feel that I am able to go to my gym and bend and stretch and hold poses in what just happens to be called "Yoga" class without feeling any inclination neither to abandon my Christian beliefs or become Hindu nor to feel that I am "one with nature" etc. I truly hope that this idea of "self-realization" and "oneness with nature" is what the author is referring to as something in which Christians should not engage and not the physical activity of Yoga.
True, maybe such a strong focus on meditation in a country suffering such hardships as stavation and could really benefit from some "action", is not the best utilization of their time. (Of course, I can't be the judget of that). Yet, maybe in US culture, meditation is a wonderful remedy to release the stresses of the day and maintain physcial and mental health. Christians are temples of the Holy Spirit both physically and spritually and we need to be good stewards of our bodies.
I am not sure of whether or not the author was saying that even physically going through the motions of "Yoga" is something in which Christians should not participate. I believe that God cares about the heart. Yes, it is still possible to sin without realizing/acknowledging the sin, but this physical activity causes no known harm to others or to self and there is nothing innately wrong with stretching in ways that God created our bodies to work in the first place.
Lastly, I dont feel that going to my gym to a Yoga class damages my witness to others. The instructor doesnt speak of the Hindu beliefs; it is purely for the physcial benefits and participants can individually choose to make it into a spritual time. If a non-believer actually cared enough to watch if I go into Yoga class at my gym and then decided not to become a Christian due to my actions, I would believe the person actually chose to remain a non-believer for reasons other than my humble Yoga class.
I fear that as a Christian community we are often called out as being too close-minded and I would sadly have to agree that sometimes we are. Yes, strictly sticking to our faith is sometimes mistaken as close-mindedness, but there are issues on which I feel we are close-minded and end up missing opportunities for growth and understanding of our world. Legalistic thinking is one of the things that Jesus abhorred. After ethical considerations of whether or not something is innately evil or causes harm to any of Gods creation, I believe its safe to say that its the thought that goes along with our actions, not necessarily the actions themselves.
This concept is something in which I firmly believe and this post was posted in humbleness.
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Re: Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 10:12:50 PM |
Age 33, TX |
I could not agree with you more when you said "especially in the case where you don't know the motives of men's hearts." There are many things that we as Christians do that can be related or connected to many many pagan, even satanic roots. We live in a fallen world and unless you live out in the country, exclude - no tv, electricity or further contact with the outside, fallen world - it is extemely hard to not take on or have some of their practices/customs rub off on us. Now, I am not condoning yoga here by any means. I have tried yoga, being sucked into that whole "there is nothing spiritual about it" line, and I can definately tell you that the spirit in me had big problems with it and I had to discontinue it after only a couple of weeks. The instructor/owner claimed to be a Christian, very active in her church etc, but it just didn't jive with MY spirit regardless of the physical benefits it claimed to have. I know the spirit that resides in me and I choose to listen to Him.
All that being said...only God alone and His spirit know the motives of a man's heart no matter how obvious it may appear to us, we are still only on the outside. How many things do we do everyday that go against perfected Christian living? How many times during the day does God have to exam our motives when we screw up royally? How many times does He find that even then our motives are sour and yet He forgives us anyway, showers us with His love and picks us again? Now are there reprocutions for continuing in anything that we have been forbid of? Yes. It is always so much easier for us to just yield to His spirit in the first place. My only advise is this - whatever it is that we are doing that may be questionable in any way, Truly seek HIS direction on it. If their is one thing I am sure of is that He will answer when we truly seek Him. He will not leave us in the dark. But, we have to be willing to listen. Many Christians don't even bother seeking Him on questionable issues much less being willing to listen if His answer isn't always what we want to hear. Don't just take some other, poor fallen soul's word for it, ask HIM yourself! As His chilren, we have a direct line!
Blessings, Teresa
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Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 09:53:02 PM |
Age 72, IA |
Christians need to be informed of these types of things. As Jesus said true worshippers shall worship in spirit and TRUTH. Worship is not to makes us have an experience put to put bring glory to the FATHER.
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
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Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 09:42:22 PM |
Age 72, IA |
Yes we have an obligation to the poor -- but we have a great obligation to be true to the WORD.
Putting first things first. Jesus said in Mark
Mark 9:42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.
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Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 08:33:43 PM |
Age 59, AL |
I have been wondering the same thing--about Halloween. I enjoyed it for many years, then one day God opened my eyes to the evil of it. I have often wondered how Christians ever got involved with it. Now I know--just like this yoga. I am surprised and disappointed at the church elders allowing this to invade their churches. I'm exceedingly glad that some Christians are speaking out against it. God bless.
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Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 05:34:12 PM |
Age 57, NZ |
Having been one of those many years ago who thought it would be okay to just do the exercises - I definitely found out different - I came under oppression - and it was hard to come out from it - had to outright renounce my involvement. Next along was the awareness that I had joined the MUIOF - just for the monetary benefits - had to renounce and come away from that - now the FREEDOM I came into was so powerful. The oppression is very real. Next came renouncing of going to various "alertative medicine" practises to get rid of pains and aches etc etc - God really had to break through to me about these things - especially as I was heading to train to be a health practitioner in any one of them? Now I am living in a new town - and I find the practise of Reiki having a HUGE detrimental effect on the lives of those having anything to do with it. GOD expressly warns us many times over to NOT BE DECEIVED - and the trouble with deception is when you are you don't know it - it takes the Holy Spirit breaking through to you - the Light to shine - the scales to be taken from the eyes - the people practising these things as their job - really really want to help people they only want to do good - they are not evil - what they are into is - Satan is a liar and a thief come to steal, kill and destroy - and oh what better place for him to try than in the church !! God bless you and keep you safe as you earnestly seek Him.
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Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 04:06:38 PM |
Age 55, OR |
Fair articele, within the limits that some feedback has suggested.
Someone requested some positive Christian comment, rather than the seemingly constant witch-hunt that is often levelled at proponents of the truth.
AHH, Witches and Witchcraft.
+++ It was the prayer-time at the end of the meeting in the little town hall in Wales, UK.
The woman approached my wife and I. My wife tried to push me in front, but the woman gently bade her to approach. My wife was several months pregnant. The woman looked to her right suddenly (she had been praying quietly). The woman's face set in sudden recognition. She spoke directly to something I could only sense. She commanded firmly for SEVERAL evil spirits to GET OUT. I had moved behind my wife in support, and had a chair for her. She clutched her middle and threw herself back and then doubled forwards with a loud cry. The woman described the various spirits. Morbidity, Divination, Death, Bitternes, and so on. At the command to one of these 'entities', my wife catapulted forwards and then back. It was like holding on to a bucking bronc.
Then it was over! It lasted 20 seconds or less. My wife cried softly. The woman warned her that she had to hold on to this moment and continue to fill the void entirely with Jesus and His Life Giving Spirit. It was something SHE had to do. No one would/could do it for her. She had been set free. Let out of jail. It was up to her to stay clean. +++
Before this little meeting where great things had happened, this Christian team had been to a women's prison in Birmingham, UK. As they had ministered, 300 women had fallen to the floor, convicted and released in one moment.
+++ Now I have a question for the reader. How many of these 300 women are still on track for the LORD JESUS? How many do we suppose went to a Church where WITCHCRAFT was treated lightly? How many went to meetings where the preaching was "modern" and wishy-washy. I wonder how many went to a place of worship where ANYONE had sufficient leisure time to even contemplate yoga and self. AHH, there we go. SELF. It is always the pursuit of SELF-something that flashes red lights to me. So, as is often the case when I say something, the REAL POINT is approached by getting the reader to look elsewhere. Yoga presupposes that any Christian has TIME for self-stuff. Perhaps we have been set free for other purposes. Maybe our Christian walk should not mark time. I am sure none of us really want to mislead others, especially of the household of faith. I MUST warn you though. Do not take WICHCRAFT lightly. It is UNEARTHLY frightening to those that are locked into it or those that may feel it is safe to dabble.
Avoid ALL appearance of evil. Please!
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Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 02:43:55 PM |
Age 73, MN |
The strange thing is that a few years ago I thought that yoga--just as an exercise would be fine--at my age a person needs exercises. However as I have seen more and more people tend to "drift" toward the eastern mystical religions, I have come to the conclusion that it is best left totally alone by Christians. As for Ouija boards--I have felt for years that this was not suitable for Christians, and the experiences of a friend of mine who did get involved has helped confirm that. These days, what I want is to find what the Scripture says, and not what some other religion teaches.
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Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 02:01:06 PM |
Age 42, KY |
"I do believe Christianity and the bible are living and evolving to an extent as long as the evolution doesn't stray from the original message from Christ.", are you kidding?!!! From that statement, you tell me you either don't understand anything about the Word, or you have been smoking some bad granola! Based on your statement above, what do you base your morale standards on? I mean if it is "Living and evolving" then everything is in influx and changing... but last time I check all the apostles have been dead for some time now, so they aren't contributing any new books or insight, so where is this new information coming from that is making the Bible evolve? And what is it supposed to be evolving into? Are you one of thos monkey-men... a man evloved from apes? Do you believe there is a absolute right and wrong, good and evil? Where in scripture do you find the justification for your assertion that "the bible is living and evolving"? Granted our understanding of the Bible is in constant flux, as YHWH chooses to give us revelation concerning the scriptures we are studying, as we mature to the point, to be able to handle those revelations. Perhaps you should take this question through the full counsel the 66 books of the Bible, and see what it has to say about adopting other methods of worship and praying. You might be surprised at what you learn! But ask any truly learned theologian, and I bet they will agree that the Bible isn't evolving.
Sorry about coming down on you so hard, but I can't stand to see God's Word misrepresented or mis-stated. Please feel free to post the scriptures that back your original statement.
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Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 01:43:43 PM |
Age 22, MN |
A few good points have been brought up in this article and subsequant replies. First, mainstream 'christianity' certainly is on a fast track embracing pagan practices, from yoga, to labyrinths, etc... Second, we need to get back to teaching, preaching, reading, and understanding the Word of God. That is something sorely lacking in our churches today. but i have a few other comments. For one, we need to keep in mind hat satan is the great perverter, he takes godly things and twists them into man centered or stan-centered things. while yoga may be a hindo practice, looking just at the physical aspect of the excercizes, is it inherently dangerous or ungodly. You say the spiritual teachings can't be extracted from the physical excersize, why not? because the yogis say so? I mean, think back to when yoga was invented, some hindo guru combined his spiritual meditations with certain physical excersizes, does this now mean those certain positions are now inherently ungodly? don't confuse the perversion of an act with the act itself. I ask Jason this, where are the article about all the old hymmns that were written to the tune of old bar songs. i mean, this was a tune meant to glorify drunkennes, adultery, debauchery, how dare we try to "christianize" it by adding dogs holy words to it!! likewise, when many writers here were up in arms last year about the war on christmas, were you protesting, saying we SHOULD extricate the pagan symbols like trees from a holiday mean to celebrate christ. but then again, why is the tree pagan, God created the tree, and everything else. What about rainbows?? A symbol of Gods post-flood promise, but now a sign of gay pride, should we remove all rainbows from our childrens bibles, remove the mention of a symbol that glorifies homosexuality from the flood acount?? Satan has always and will always pervert things that were meant for godly purpouses, perhaps we NEED to take back physical excerzise for the betterment of thes clay bodies, after all, they are, while we are here, temples of the Holy Spirit. Again, i agree the emergent church and many postmodern mainstream churches aren't just bringing in the physical practice, but are bringing with the yoga and labyrinth walking, unbiblical contemplative prayer and other mind emptying and mind altering practices. Humbly submitted.
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Re: Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 01:16:29 PM |
Age 42, KY |
YHWH and Yeshua were very specific about what they expect in worship and prayer, so why do you or any other Christian, think that you know what is best when it comes to a deeper relationship with Son and the Father. While we worship a living Father, Son and Holy Spirit, it doesn't mean that we have to constantly come up with new ways to worship. We are to pray and worship with all our strenght and all our hearts, according to the Bible! If you truly seek a deeper relationship with the Father and the Son, then open your Bible and read it, and then think about what you have read, and how it relates to the rest of the Bible. And when you have read it through, start at the beginning and read it again. If you spend the rest of your life doing this, you will never understand it completely and dig all the information and benefits it has to offer. According to John 1:1 - "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." How foolish it is for anyone to think they have a complete understanding of the Bible after reading it through only ocne. Again,if what anyone seeks is a deeper, richer, more meaningful relationship with the Father and the Son, you need go no further than opening and reading your Bible. If you look anywhere else for adding to your relationship with God, the Son and the Holy Spirit, then you are certain to be disappointed in the end.
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Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 12:21:06 PM |
Age 66, AL |
This was a good article and I enjoyed it. It is understandable why people are reaching outside their denominations to try and find a Spiritual Connect. Many denominations tell their members Spiritual expierence ceased when the 12 ceased to breathe. Fortunately the New Testament proclaims just the opposite. Jesus stated the Holy Spirit would be in the world until he returned. His followers would be known for their demonstration of Spiritual Gifts which are out lined in scripture.
The concept of Meditation in our world today is worlds apart from the meditation presented in Scripture. No one needs to go outside of Scripture to experience all the Holy Spirit they can handle. Dropping Denominational Bias and man made doctrine is the first step to Spiritual experience. The second Step is to READ the WORD and wait on the Holy Spirit.
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Re: Christian Ouija Boards- The Next Big Thing?
| Posted On: 09/12/06 11:58:50 AM |
Age 42, KY |
Good article brother, but I am afraid it is too little, why too late. You failed to mention when Christians first start "Christianizing" Pagan rites and rituals. The best example of this is Christmas, which was originally called "Saturnalia" that was observed by the Pagan Romans which include feasting, decorations of lite candles, gift giving, decorated trees, and wild orgies. The 3rd century church essentially said, if you can drop the orgies we will keep the rest of the rest of traditions. Easter has similar pagan beginnings, but is a celebration honoring Attis and Ishtar or Astarte, a Canaanite Fertility goddess. We have many churches that hold Halloween parties and such, all this done in the name of "winning folks to Christ". So crying over Yoga is a bit "Johnny-come-lately", if you know what I mean. The Christian church has had roughly 1700 years of annexing pagan celebrations and rituals in the name of spreading the Word of God... the very word that warns us not to adopt the traditions of man, on several different occassions. If you want to clean house, you need to start with Christmas and Easter, then the yoga and other 'postmodern-Christian' junk pracatices will not find a footing! But as long as you turn a blind eye to one pagan practice only to point fingers at another, you have duality... which the Word says, you can't have!
You are right about adopting pagan rights, rituals and celebrations thinking we can "Christianizing" them... is goes against God's Word!
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