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THE GAY "CHRISTIAN."



Posted: 01/31/08

The Gay "Christian."

People often ask how to respond to those who are homosexuals, and yet consider themselves to be Christians. While a fornicator, a homosexual, an adulterer, a thief, and liar can become a Christian, it is important to understand that they cannot remain in their sins. If someone does, he is simply a pretender (a hypocrite). To be a Christian, you must stop your sinful lifestyle, commonly called "repentance."

So, how do you tell someone that, without causing undue offense? I would witness to him using God's Law (the Ten Commandments). I wouldn't mention the homosexual issue until he is humbled, and sin is seen in its true light. There's a very good reason for this. No proud person can see the nature of his own sins. He is blinded by pride. If you have done marriage counselling, you will know this to be true. If there is no humility, there won't be an open ear to reason. So the Law should be used to humble the human heart, show sin in its true light, and hopefully show the person his error, and his great danger.

Distributed by www.worldviewweekend.com

By Ray Comfort

Email: email@livingwaters.com

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READER FEEDBACK


Truth
Posted On: 02/11/08 12:33:55 AM Age 40, CA
Well, I can't agree with you more on this comment. :) We've both learned. God always has a way of turning a bad incident into one that is good for us, and one in which we are able to glorify Him! God is more than good -- there is no word that can describe Him. NONE. Continue fighting the good fight!



Man's Logic or "Guided logic", Isaiah 1:18
Posted On: 02/10/08 07:54:15 PM Age 60, OR
Sorry, my bookmark was set to pg2 so I didn't see that you had posted at the top, but thanx anyway Isaac, because I had forgotten about combining words out of context, reading things out of what was NOT said, “catching on words” instead of concepts, and putting words in my mouth, -in my list to Lou: “all of your non-answers, rabbit trails & fantasy interpretations”. I did not say that: “Lou is a weak, trolling Christian”. I said: “I had a decision to make [and because I have already made all the long, unanswered arguments in the link listed above and don’t wish to waste more time], I simply gave 2 options. Give me 1 or 2 more; and it likely won’t change my *statement*, not “claim”. Further, even your erroneously combined statement does not make me “claim to say his argument is false”. I don’t find the word “false” in my post, so you must be reading that by some implication; one of maybe many possible meanings… As to your 2nd argument, your dad has tried that argument on me before. If you go back to my previous responses to him you will see that I hold natural revelation to a much lower level than he. The world, as you noted, misinterprets the natural and then holds it up as an indictment against the revealed Word. You will see [No Reason... Posted On: 07/04/07 11:46:14 AM, article.php/2145] that I hold the spirit of the revealed Word of God at the highest level; that God has progressively revealed Himself to us in each new book of the “Bible”, most positively and authoritatively in the Person of Jesus as Hebrews declares, and finally, in the NT, the most complete, “expositive” revelation until the “Canon” was closed, fixed, and “was ONCE delivered unto the saints” at the end of John’s Revelation. Additionally, you will find I believe in the progressive revelation of the *spiritual truths* that are hidden in the Word and revealed *to His Saints* [From “No Reason…”: “the majority of Christian doctrine is ‘hidden’; “ here a little, there a little”. Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of Elohyim to conceal a thing [matter]: but the honor of kings is to search [dig] out a matter. Psalm 25:14 The secret of YeHoVaH is with them that fear him; and he will show them his covenant. Amos 3:7 Surely the Sovereign YeHoVaH will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets]. Further, I emphatically deny ANY *new* word or book of so-called “scripture”, or any “revelation” or “teaching” that in any way contradicts or distorts what has been revealed and sealed in the “Canon” of Scripture [Rev. 22:18-19]. That being said, when I look at 2000 yrs of progressive revelation, I don’t give a ‘squat’ what “ancient creeds” say that may have ‘kicked it off’ [including the Athanasian Creed that both you and your dad have ref’d before] in ‘human’ attempts to ‘confirm’ His revelation, I look at the end-time result, whereby the Spirit of Truth has guided His Beloved into all Truth, and I see nothing in Evangelical, Fundamentalist Christianity that even remotely denies the “Trinity”! The product at the end of 2000 yrs is that you can always read Dr. Martin’s classic “The Kingdom of the Cults” to find which are in “The Minority Report”… Continuing in your 2nd , and contrary to your assertions as before, there was no “claim” of “his argument being false”; there are other options; Confused, searching, speaking w/o understanding, etc., or on the negative side; false, deceptive, etc… What’s in your mind that you pick the most negative?… Also, I would like to know: What is it with you that makes so much confusion out of what I plainly said? BTW, JOOC, what *statement* did I make that you *claim* -“isn't even an argument imo. the classical form of an argument”? Also, recheck the definition of Ad Hominem, as I did not attack the “character” of Lou, but instead, his actions and the weakness of his “arguments” -“against the Trinity”. I conclude that I fully concur with you on your closing statement. Love in the GN of Jesus, Dan RN.

A CLAY JAR
Posted On: 02/08/08 10:29:03 PM Age 64, OH
Dear friend I am chief among sinners and I only boast of my weakness for in my weakness Jesus is always strong. I have absolutely no degree at all, of any kind. By the grace of God I have been taught by no man. I have sat under the greatest Teacher in the universe for 33 years and not without result. For He is a teacher more than able to make up for my being such a very poor student. Yet I was sent to teach High School and many students were saved until them fired me for telling the students of The Lord Jesus even when they asked me. The Lord also sent me to be a project leader in a steel mill crane manufacturers engineering dept. I was able to do stress analysis with His help even though I had no training in engineering. I have no degree but the Lord has sent me to teach college professors and they were humbled not by me but by the Almighty. He sent me to teach pastors and I told them more than I knew, but it was not me speaking but the Almighty. God has sent me to preach before judges and even kings and he has always given me the words to preach even though I had none prepared. I preach every Sunday but never prepare a sermon or even have a note. There is only one qualification to the Holy Spirit speaking through a man. That is for him to be aware that he is absolutely nothing except for being the chief of sinners. We have this treasure in jars of clay so that men will be aware that this all surpassing power is from God and not from us. Lou



Bless God
Posted On: 02/08/08 06:00:43 PM Age 47, MO
You know, when I send emails, speak, or what ever, my first response is- this is a good answer that should fix the problem, then the Spirit speaks. This exchange has reinforced lessons that I am slow to learn. 1) I am quick to act in the flesh and think it is right because I am Christian. 2) Doctrine doesn't matter, faith of a child moves mountains. 3) We can argue all we want but the TRUTH is that we don't know squat. Brother, we haven't even a glimps of God and think we have Him all figured out. How pathetically prideful is that? Anyway, I'm glad you too heard from the HS after our exchange. I was hoping Ray wouldn't post my last response so that my shame wouldn't be on public display, thank God for ES! (and the baseball bat:-) By His grace, John

My Name?
Posted On: 02/08/08 04:57:43 PM Age 40, CA
I have written for the purpose of clarifying what was previously unclear to you. Knowing my name would only allow you the opportunity to continue future discontent, and therefore, more opportunity to demonstrate your inability to control your emotions. Your comments do not offend me. They only provide me with an opportunity to practice compassion. So I thank God for this. As you know, "sometimes" discernment can be accomplished through knowledge of Scripture and not be entirely dependent on the work of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 15:18-19, "But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'" Our weaknesses originate from three roots: 1) Weakness to the flesh (Food and Sex), 2) Weakness to material possessions, and 3) Weakness to love of self (pride). When Satan tempted Eve, he used temptation that originated from these three roots and was successful. He use the same three to tempt Jesus, but, as you know, he failed. Which of the three has he used to influence you write the comments you wrote in your last commentary? I don't believe 1) or 2) would apply... do you? Facetiousness and sarcasm are only a couple fruit that come from the trees of pride. We all have our weaknesses. The first step in improving is recognizing them and accepting them in order that we may present them to God for help. Peace and grace, brother.



response
Posted On: 02/08/08 02:51:23 PM Age 40, CA
Hello my brother: I apologize for the offense -- I tripped over my overzealous concern for the church. It was my intention to grab your attention -- although I see my attempt was packaged a little more roughly than was necessary. But to clarify things: I am a public high school teacher, and have a Master's in Theology. I say this not to bring glory upon myself for I know that if I were to walk on water, most would say, "that's only because you're a bad swimmer." but I say this so that you may know that I have plenty of opportunity to improve my life here on earth, but would rather devote most of my free time to helping Christians avoid the pitfalls (e.g. the extremes of legalism and licentiousness) so that they may become more like Christ as they walk with Him. I don't deserve anything God has given me, and "feel" eternally in debt to Him. Why should I boast about what I have when I know it is God who gives us all we have? I try my best (through trust in our Lord) that I may not only read, but live Philippians 2:3, "Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interest of others." My greatest concern (outside of evangelism) is that everyone understand that it is crucial to teach everything in the Bible with a balanced approach -- that's all. And that there are forces, much more powerful than we believe, and, at times, that we greatly underestimate, which will contribute to the growing problem in the church today: Lack of Spiritual growth due to poor spiritual nutrition. Peace and Grace.

You win!
Posted On: 02/08/08 02:51:31 AM Age 47, MO
It is obvious by your writing and reasoning skills that I am not worthy of your superior holiness. Your use of brotherly love is quite apparent as you spoke by the Holy Spirit's direction. Your ability to understand the true me at the depth of my soul leaves me a wretched wreck looking for a church like yours to attend. You are a pastor, a counselor, a patient, a full time employee at McDonalds, and a biblical grand master, I can't compete with that. Please accept my appologies for wasting your time, challenging your wisdom, and not uderstanding the depth of your discernment. Please, grand master tell us your real name, in the future what shall we call you? Yes, I am John



blindness
Posted On: 02/07/08 01:38:11 PM Age 40, CA
You wrote: "Sorry, I couldn't read all of your response, its lenght was much longer than my interest or my attention span." Here is the cause of your blindness: You're MORE concerned about being heard than hearing. God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason. Peace brother. :)

Response
Posted On: 02/07/08 01:30:20 PM Age 40, CA
I think your comment is strong and very valid. The two "options" provided in Scripture for divorce and remarriage are if the victim's spouse committed adultery, or the victim's spouse divorced him or her when he or she didn't want to get the divorced. But there are many people in the church today who have been divorced (after being saved) for other reasons and have remarried. Some people say, God forgives and forgets the act of remarriage outside of Scriptural boundaries. Yes, God forgives the act of remarriage, however, every time the person has sex with his or her spouse, he or she is commiting adultery -- every time. And there are consequences to every sin we commit, so, a person living in that condition would be facing a lot of chastisement in their lives due to the consequence of their continual sin. The reason churches don't treat this type of adultery as they do homosexuality is because adultery caused by remarriage (outside of Scriptural boundaries) is not as socially repulsive as homosexuality, and the Bible seemingly demonstrates God's wrath more vividly on homosexuality than it does on remarriage. Does this mean that we should ignore your comment? Absolutely not. In fact, we should listen and do something about it. For instance, if a church knows that a person who attends that church was (after he or she was saved) remarried (outside of Scriptural boundaries) and is therefore living in continual adultery, AND the same church knows that a homosexual is attending its services, they should treat both the same: they both can attend but not participate as a church member (e.g. evangelism, hold any other church functions, speak in the church, or start a ministry for the local church or church in general). They are allowed to listen to the sermons and ask for prayer -- so that God may intervene in such a difficult issue (homosexuality and living in adultery). Hope this helps.



response
Posted On: 02/07/08 01:23:49 PM Age 40, CA
Hello again. 1) You never said you believed or didn't believe in ES, however, your belief that we should not talk about ES (in essence, removing all Scripture from the Bible that refers to ES) is indicative of Arminian belief which leads to Self-righteousness. And in my life I have seen plenty of this affect. 2) I don't recall your previous statements because I don't make it a point to follow your comments. 3) I am aware of False Security. But, I am not referring to that. Unlike you, I've seen plenty of cases of people who don't talk about ES, don't believe in it, and therefore don't live a secure life in Christ because they believe their salvation is dependent on their works and ability. 4) You are guilty of broad-brushing. Not all Christians who are taught ES are Fat and Lazy. If you were to see my congregation, you would learn something new. I'll give you my life for an example: I actively support two missions, I do street evangelism when I have a free hour or two, I pastor a church, and provide Christian counseling at no charge. And I hold a full-time job. I am a strong believer in ES -- Are you going to call me fat and lazy? Your perception is just that -- yours. You cannot claim a fact based on your perception. The world does not evolve around your perception and knowledge. Do you know what's in the heart of those who you "see?" How do you know that these secure self-righteous people are only acting "secure" but really aren't? Self-righteous people act really good. I think they've fooled you. 5) Lastly, the value of teaching of ES is: * We are to teach the WHOLE counsel of God. * 2 TIM 3:16, "ALL Scripture again ALL Scripture is good for training in righteousness." ALL Scripture. Now, how can you say preaching ES is not good?? Do you really want me to fill they response with the Jesus' words on ES? I know you know there are quite a few. ES provides assurance to a person who is overwhelmed with fear of losing their salvation. BUT we have to preach the whole counsel not half. Peace.

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